Friday, July 23, 2010

Who am I?

This is something of a companion to yesterday's blog What am I doing here? but without most of the rant and frustration. Right to it, then.

In traditional Christianity, the Christian is defined as saved by grace and a beneficiary of God's grace through Jesus Christ. The Law, which previously defined the Jewish people, was done away with, and was replaced by grace. Christians who have accepted Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior are defined by grace and not by the Law and behaviorally, are free from about 99% of what used to be required by the Law (that figure might be a slight exaggeration on my part).

In the traditional One Law view, Gentiles and Jews both are saved by grace, not works, but out of faith and grace, adhere to "God's preferred lifestyle for the redeemed community" by their obligation to the 613 commandments, or at least as many as can be obeyed without the Temple in Jerusalem and (for most of us) living in the diaspora.

In the Messianic Jewish/Bilateral Eccelesiology viewpoint, only Jews (Messianic or otherwise) are obligated to the full weight of Torah. Any Gentiles who choose to worship in an MJ/BE context accept that only a small subset of the written Torah applies to them and that, all other requirements of God for believing Gentiles are "written on their hearts" (Romans 2:12-16), although exactly what is actually written there is poorly defined by the MJ/BE movement. The Acts 15 letter is seen as defining the most important requirements for Gentiles, but cannot be the full limit as, for instance, not murdering isn't listed. Yet the letter is viewed as specifically not requiring full Torah obedience from Gentile believers in the Messiah.

That brings me to my topic for today. In my conversations with adherents of MJ/BE, I, as a Gentile, have been defined specifically by who I am not, and what I cannot do relative to the Bible and the Messianic Jewish community. MJ/BE proponents characterize my worship life in terms of a set of restrictions and lack of access. For instance, as a Gentile, I am not allowed the blessing of an aliyah because only Jews are obligated to Torah and thus, allowed to read the Torah in public (I suppose I should say "read the Torah aloud in a Messianic Jewish service", since I'm sure I wouldn't be prevented from reading a Torah portion to myself in a public library or reading out loud from Deuteronomy to my grandson in a public park). I cannot pray wearing tzitzit because that commandment was only given by Moses to the Jews. I might be able to pray from the siddur but this becomes questionable since the siddur was written for a specifically Jewish audience.

I'm not saying this to complain but rather to illustrate that the MJ/BE perspective seems to see Gentiles in their midst relative to who we are not rather than who we are. We are seen by what we are not allowed to do rather than what we can do. We are defined, basically, in terms of the negative rather than anything positive. Is it any wonder that some Gentiles may chafe when asked to cheerfully consider themselves as what amounts to a restricted "species"?

Here's a couple of thoughts:
The actual intent is to say that we are thankful that God has enlightened us so that, unlike the pagans, we worship the true God and not idols. There is no inherent superiority in being Jewish, but we do assert the superiority of monotheistic belief over paganism. Although paganism still exists today, we are no longer the only ones to have a belief in one God -Rabbi Reuven Hammer of Masorti Judaism
What Paul means is that circumcision and Jewish identity do not elevate a Jew above the Gentle before God. There is a difference in role but no hierarchy of status -Mark Kinzer, Postmissionary Messianic Judaism: Redefining Christian Engagement with the Jewish People
Both Rabbi Hammer and Dr. Kinzer state that the distinctiveness of the Jewish people and the differences in covenant roles between Jews and Gentles do not actually make Jewish people better than Gentiles nor does it make Jews more loved, cared for, or more privileged in the eyes of God than Gentile believers. This would seem to all be evident from Paul's statement here:
You are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus, for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. -Galatians 3:26-28
Paul isn't eliminating the distinctive differences between Jew and Gentile any more than he's eliminating the distinctive differences between men and women. He is saying though that God doesn't favor the Jewish people in His love over the Gentile any more than He favors men in His love over women.

In other words, I, as a Gentile, am loved by God every bit as much as a Jewish believer. God does not consider me a Jew but neither does He consider me a "second-class citizen" in the Kingdom of God. The question is, does any Jewish person in the MJ/BE movement consider Gentiles to a inferior and further, does MJ/BE encourage this impression?

It's hard to say. When you are only defined by your limitations rather than any positive qualities you may possess, it's difficult to understand how you are viewed by the Jewish leadership and congregation around you (assuming you're a Gentile who belongs to, or at least attends, an MJ/BE congregation).

MJ/BE proponents chafe when Gentiles begin to complain about how we are depicted as negatives and we are told to accept our lot in life happily. If we don't, we're accused of various and sundry behaviors such as envy, racism, and lack of faith. In a sense though, that's like accusing a person who is critical of President Obama's policies of racism just because the President is African-American. Is the President "criticism-proof" on the basis if race? Can I not be critical of the MJ/BE movement, or at least some aspects of it, for any reason other than "racism"? Can I not request that MJ/BE explain their statements more fully, especially if they somehow expect me to comply to their "requests" out of "respect"? I've been accused of "straw man" arguments in the past, but in this particular instance, I think the shoe is on the other foot.

Here's what would help.

MJ/BE proponents are attempting to convince Jewish and Gentile elements in related fragments of "the movement" (One Law, Two-House, and other forms of Messianic Judaism) of the correctness of the MJ/BE perspective and the error of everyone else's view point. If MJ/BE wants to be at least listened to if not actually heard, it might be helpful if they took a more even approach to their presentation. MJ/BE is very good at defining who is Jewish within their context but extremely poor at defining Gentiles in a way that would make any Gentile anywhere want to be a part of their framework.

What would help would be for MJ/BE proponents to define the Gentiles in their midst in terms of their contributions to the community of faith (beyond the mere financial offerings, which only serve to make people feel their only worth is material, with no spiritual components involved). Is MJ/BE able to say why God gives a rip about non-Jews and deliberately has grafted them in to the same Olive Tree as the natural branches, side-by-side, so to speak? If MJ/BE could do that, they might actually get other people to listen to them rather than argue with them and they might avoid the appearance of being elitist. When pressed, MJ/BE can extend itself in this direction, but it's a bit like trying to pull a horse's teeth:
James, Gentiles can GIVE everything that Jews can give. They can teach (although matters pertaining to Jewish issues / Torah / education of Jewish children, preparations for Bar Mitzva should be taught by Jews), visit the sick, tend to the widows and orphans, give to the poor (all poor, and especially the poor of Israel - per NT precedent), share the Good News of the Kingdom with everyone, etc. and etc. I can go on! -Gene Shlomovich
Keep in mind that I don't think that MJ/BE has the ultimate interpretation of the Bible at their fingertips and I don't believe that any one group has a 100% correct insight into the meaning of God's Word and Will. I do believe that we all, each and every one of us, struggle all our lives to find our place with God, as we journey step-by-step on the path of righteousness. I believe that each person individually negotiates his or her relationship with God. We all have individual paths to walk and no two people walk the same road. We also are each at different points in our roads, relative to closeness to God, understanding, insight, and faith, so developmentally, no two people are at the same spiritual level.

Also, keep in mind that we continue to labor under the weight of just a ton of tradition and interpretation in our worship lives which sometimes gets in the way of seeing each other. This is probably why no two MJ congregations are exactly alike. One may pattern themselves on the Orthodox and another on Conservative or Reform movements. Naturally, each one will think their interpretation is "better" and maybe even more "Jewish", but then, what did all this look like at the time of Yeshua or in the day of Moses, when the two tablets brought down from Sinai were still warm with the freshness of God's finger upon them?

All monotheistic religious forms invariably drift from source, at least a little, over time. We can see this in Christianity, Judaism, and Islam (after all Sharia Law is more an interpretation of ancient Arabic tribal laws and less anything you'll find in the Koran). While each congregation is within their rights to choose their tradition, it's a mistake for them to apply their tradition as the only "rightness" onto individuals and communities outside their immediate confines.This accounts for the variability we see in different Messianic Jewish congregations (that are populated mainly by Jews) and explains that, to be a valid MJ, you don't necessarily have to be MJ/BE.

So who am I? First and foremost, I was made in the image of God and no person or group can take that way. Secondly, I am loved by God by virtue of my being a human being and am accepted into the Commonwealth of Faith by the blood of Yeshua, the Jewish Messiah. I can consider Yeshua my shepherd. My prayers are heard by God and Yeshua is my intercessor, sitting at His right hand. I have the intelligence and skill sets that God gave me and those are not devalued because of my ethnicity nor because my covenant standing with God is different (not better or worse) than the Jewish people.

Here's another way to put it. I heard a story once:
Many years ago, there was a very learned Rabbi who would periodically take a trip on his donkey to another town to converse and exchange knowledge with other Rabbis in his region. He had a reputation for being particularly intelligent and a skilled debater, often proving his peers and contemporaries in error on some Talmudic interpretation. He was on his way back home from one of these conferences one day, when he saw a figure in the distance walking towards him. As the figure drew closer, the Rabbi was able to make out he was a man and as the man came closer, he noticed that the man was greatly deformed. Aghast and without meaning to, as the man came up alongside the Rabbi's donkey about to pass, the Rabbi blurted out, "What a hideous person!" He was immediately embarrassed by his outburst but the deed was done and could not be taken back. The deformed man stopped, turned, and looked up at the Rabbi. The Rabbi was well known in the area and the deformed man immediately recognized him. In a slow, soft voice, the man replied, "If you don't like the way I look Rabbi, take it up with my Creator."
This is an actual Rabbinic tale I read once, but I cannot recall its source. I do not tell this story to put down anyone, but to illustrate that, if I am different from you in any way, it doesn't mean that I'm worse than you or inferior than you...it just means I'm different. If you don't like the fact that I'm different, take it up with my Creator. He's the one who made me who I am. I'm only responsible for what I do with what He created.

22 comments:

Gene Shlomovich said...

James, another heartfelt post.

I don't not quite understand, however, why do you feel a need to judge your self-worth and that of other Gentiles in the Body by whether or not you could go up to the Torah or do other JEWISH TRADITIONAL things in some purely hypothetical MJ/Jewish congregation, the kind that neither you NOR MOST Gentile believers, One-Law or not, happen attend, and many of whom (yourself included) don't even have in their geographical area?!

This breeds resentment without a cause. I didn't do anything to you James, and I am no position to exclude you from anything - I live far away from you. At the same time, neither do I complain that your congregation is limiting me in some way, shape, or form.

Messianic Jewish congregations are there to meet the unique spiritual needs of Jewish followers of Messiah (ideally, but in practice many have already lost their focus). Why do they have to instead become experiments in uniformity and egalitarianism, to be all things to all people?

I understand that some Gentiles feel that Messianic Judaism is a replacement of "pagan" Christianity, and should become the new universal faith for all mankind. We should welcome everyone to bring in whatever they want to bring with them, to shape it however they like (which is exactly what many "messianic" groups have done). In the end, Jews (which make up 0.02% of world's population and probably the same percentage of believers in Yeshua) should have no say (and will not) in the way their own movements runs. However, most Messianic Jews do not see it this way.

No James, we don't want to devalue you as a human being by deciding what happens in our communities - we just want us and our children to live as Jews and have a say in what that means for us. That's all.

James said...

Re-read the article Gene. I'm not saying you are devaluing me by my not being able to have an aliyah or anything else, I'm saying that the impression I and others can get from some of the comments on these blogs, is that we are devalued, because of how the comments seem to define Gentiles relative to MJ/BE.

My whole point is to encourage you and others who support MJ/BE to consider your words and how you refer to Gentiles. You know your intent within your own thoughts, but the rest of us just get the text, which can be misunderstood. If you were to go over some of the comments you've made over the past view months in various blogs and see them through my eyes, they might look different to you than what you intended.

You did a good job in your comment here. These articles and the comments they inspire are to try and help us understand each other but, as you can see, that's not always an easy task. Hopefully, progress can be made between our different communities so that, even though we are different, we can still find a common bond in our mutual Shepherd.

I don't resent you. I just want a more accurate presentation of how MJ/BE views Gentiles. The little snippets that make it into some of the comments in various blogs doesn't always represent what are likely your actual thoughts and feelings.

Hopefully, there was nothing in what I said that communicated I opposed you and your children living like Jews and being self-deterministic in your congregations.

Russ said...

James,

I have no intention of stirring up a firestorm on your blog, so I will limit my response to the following:

I have asked this question before on other blogs but have yet to receive a definitive answer;

If it was and is the purpose of the Creator of all things to start, establish and maintain a distinction between one people group and all the other people groups on the planet, why in the world did He send His Son to create a called out assembly from all the people groups in the world?

Just to keep the division going but in a more spiritual context?

This all seems to come down to practices contained within traditions. If I am a Gentile, only certain practices are available to me without controversy. If I am a Jew, then other practices are available that are not considered to be appropriate for those considered to be Gentiles.

And yet the new covenant writings are very clear that if as a Gentile or a Jew I practice sin I will die. Or if as a Jew or a Gentile I practice righteousness, the righteousness found in the Torah of YHVH, I will live.

It would seem, that since this is a life or death matter for both Jews and Gentiles, that the division lines being drawn around certain practices would, for the sake of us all, be removed so that there would not be anyone who felt that they could not or should not practice what YHVH by His Spirit is calling them to do.

Does He not define our faith and practice? Does He not establish each of us in His kingdom according to His plan and purpose?

To be clear, I understand that YHVH still only has one people group on the planet, He calls them Israel. I am a part of the Israel of YHVH having gained entrance through His Son Messiah Yeshua. I, and anyone else who has the Spirit of Messiah in them, belong to the Israel of YHVH. And being a part of that kingdom I am "obligated" to keep the rules and practices established for that kingdom by the King, Messiah Yeshua. I cannot add to nor take away from those requirements without incurring a penalty for myself. Now if I try to prevent others from keeping those same requirements, for whatever reason, again I incur a penalty, not only for myself but for those whom I have lead astray.

Yes, I'm sure we could debate just what those requirements are and who should keep them, but are we not all citizens of the same kingdom? Is there not one King who is over all?

Ef

Gene Shlomovich said...

"To be clear, I understand that YHVH still only has one people group on the planet, He calls them Israel."

Efrayim... which planet? Certain not the one I live on. On my planet (let's call it "Earth"), G-d has created many "people groups" or nations, and he also created Israel, a nation of descendants of Abraham, Isaak, and Jacob. Individual nations will make up the Commonwealth of Israel (sort of like U.K.).

"And being a part of that kingdom I am "obligated" to keep the rules and practices established for that kingdom by the King, Messiah Yeshua. I cannot add to nor take away from those requirements without incurring a penalty for myself."

OK, but what does the Bible say?

"The apostles and elders, your brothers, To the Gentile believers in Antioch, Syria and Cilicia: Greetings. We have heard that some went out from us without our authorization and disturbed you, troubling your minds by what they said. ... It seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us not to burden you with anything beyond the following requirements: You are to abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality. You will do well to avoid these things. Farewell." (Acts 28-29)

How is it that you say that you "cannot add to nor take away from those requirements without incurring a penalty for myself," and yet the apostles clearly took away from the requirements you think should also be for Gentiles by saying that the Holy Spirit and they themselves decided that Gentiles were not to be burdened with anything "with anything beyond the following requirements"?

Notice that in that latter (or anywhere in the Bible) they didn't say anything that "Oh, Gentiles will catch up later"). After all, requirements are requirements, and if for Gentiles violating of Moses is sin for them - if murder is sin - then the line "with anything beyond the following requirements" makes little sense. Note that the letter was written to a community of BELIEVERS (not those who are "just coming to faith").

Please, don't repeat the tired line that "So, Gentiles can murder now?" Kain killed Able before Torah was ever given to Israel, and that was sin back then as it is now. Man knows when he sins - G-d built it into him.

Russ said...

Beyond the following requirements?

Like also avoiding these:

slander, malice, filthy talk, foolish jesting, drinking too much wine, lying, stealing, homosexuality, occult practices, jealousy, envy, anger, selfish ambition, factionalism, intrigue, impurity, indecency, adultery, bitterness, rage, violent assertiveness, spitefulness, greed, and so on and so on....

there are many other such requirements listed in the scriptures along with many other such lists of things we are supposed to do, like the ten commandments which were given to the whole world.

I guess Sha'ul had second thoughts and decided on his own to "burden" the Gentiles with additional requirements.

And, "don't quench the Spirit, don't despise inspired messages. But do test everything-hold onto what is good, but keep away from every form of evil".

Perhaps you could provide us with a list that includes a description of "every form of evil" so that we don't get too crazy and do things that might be misconstrued as being invasive to another, separate, people group that resides here on this planet.

Ef

James said...

This argument is solved in traditional Christianity by saying that Christians are obligated to the "moral" laws but not the "ceremonial" laws, which is why Christians understand that murdering someone or coveting their really cool power tools is wrong but that eating pork and going to a yard sale on Saturday (Shabbat) is OK.

Beyond Genesis and Acts 15, exactly how does a Gentile within the MJ/BE context know which laws are written on his/her heart as a result of becoming a "Yeshua-believer"?

Over to you, Gene. ;-)

Gene Shlomovich said...

"there are many other such requirements listed in the scriptures along with many other such lists of things we are supposed to do, like the ten commandments which were given to the whole world."

Efrayim, all the "sins" you listed here are universally understood as evils, unless a particular culture is corrupted beyond repair, as sins. Again, these fall under the designation of "Torah in the hearts" of all mankind, not Torah of Moses as given to Israel, with its unique requirements for that specific people. Therefore it's obvious to an extreme that the apostles didn't mean to excuse Gentiles from the universal basics of decency and morality, but rather from Jewish continental obligations bound in observances found in Mosaic Law and their interpretations as found in Jewish traditions (or "Oral Torah").

Eating pork and other non-kosher animals (often the only supplies of protein available for many people around the world) is not universally understood as evil. Not wearing tzi-tzit is not universally understood as evil. Not resting on Shabbat is not universally understood as evil. Not celebrating Yom Kippur is not universally understood as evil. Not praying three times a day is not universally understood as evil. Sitting on a chair where your spouse (while in her "special time") just sat is not universally understood as sinful. I can go on and on.

I hope you got my point.

James said...

Sitting on a chair where your spouse (while in her "special time") just sat is not universally understood as sinful. I can go on and on.

I didn't think this was so much "sinful" as it rendered the fellow ceremonially unclean relative to offering sacrifices at the Mishkan and later the Temple. For instance, today, you might get on a city bus and take a seat recently vacated by a woman during her "special time"...how would you know and what would be the consequences, if any" in the 21st century diaspora?

Gene Shlomovich said...

"I didn't think this was so much "sinful" as it rendered the fellow ceremonially unclean relative to offering sacrifices at the Mishkan and later the Temple."

One could argue about degrees of sin. However, it being a commandment from G-d, it would still be sinful if you violated it INTENTIONALLY/willfully, because in doing so you would flaunt Torah, and because that sin may combine with other, more weighty commandments (in which case being impure may contribute to additional sins).

More importantly, not purifying yourself AFTER becoming unclean WOULD be certainly sin. Many of the commandments are tightly interconnected (and that's partially the reason why much of Torah is only applicable to Jews and especially Jews living in the Land, and especially Jews living in the Land and having the Temple).

Gene Shlomovich said...

"Beyond Genesis and Acts 15, exactly how does a Gentile within the MJ/BE context know which laws are written on his/her heart as a result of becoming a "Yeshua-believer"?

I would say that all the universally understood moral parts, as well as love for G-d and love for fellow men (these are probably considered universal as well,at least they should be). Nothing else is required at this point for a holy living.

James said...

I understand what you're saying Gene, but under current circumstances, (no active Levitical priesthood, no Temple, and not living in the Land of Israel) what would you be cleansing yourself from? Also, as I mentioned before, in the modern world, it's all too easy to *unintentionally* violate this directive and never know about it.

This somewhat goes back to my previous question though. You say that we should all know the "Torah" that is written on our hearts because worldwide moral standards all, more or less, address the same issues. I don't know if that's particularly true.

Simple example. Advertising and commercialization has developed "coveting" practically into a professional sport (I'm being tongue-in-cheek, here) so Paul's example in Romans about not knowing coveting is a sin unless he knew Torah, makes it at least somewhat incumbent on the Gentile believer to read the Bible and see what it says about how we are to conduct ourselves.

If you're looking for human intuition or "common sense" to tell all people everywhere the difference between God's standards of right and wrong, you may be looking in vain. I have no problem reading the Bible and gaining from that reading the understanding that stealing, even a penny from a piggy bank, is wrong. Based on my human understanding, outside the context of my faith and the Bible, I could easily justify taking small amounts of money by telling myself it's not that big a deal.

The moral structure weaved in the Bible isn't completely irrelevant to the Gentile believer and in fact, the Torah is largely the basis for the legal system in the U.S. and a number of other countries, thus having an application beyond Israel.

I discovered this link the other day and found the comments of the Chief Rabbi of the Commonwealth (UK) interesting and particularly relevant to our discussion:

Covenant and Conversation - Vaetchanan 5768.

Russ said...

Whoa, wait a minute here. Do you mean that if I break Torah intentionally, such as the riding the bus scenario, it would be sin for me, and yet that particular commandment doesn't apply to me if I am not a Jew?

And so I am constrained to adjust my behavior according to current cultural practices? Do you know of any culture on this planet whose culture lines up with the commandments of YHVH?

And keep in mind that I will not be judged according to my conformance to cultural norms, but rather by the Word of YHVH.

The "universality" of what might be considered "evil" in any culture is a moving target at best. Why would someone want to discourage me from attaining the walk Messiah intended for His people simply because I might not fit their description of a "Jew"?

I understand that my relationship with YHVH is determined by my trust in His Son and not what I eat or drink. But that is what we are talking about here, relationship. Should not a believer try to do all they can to find out what is acceptable and then do it with all their strength?

The wearing of the tzitziyot will not get me into His kingdom, but then neither will it exclude me. It is not a sin to wear them.

Breaking His Shabbat is a sin and would exclude me from His kingdom if I persisted in ignoring His direct command to rest on that day.

So I choose to wear tzitziyot and keep His Shabbat. So what? What is that between me and you? Do I not serve Messiah Yeshua?

What I do is between me and Him unless I cause you harm in some way. Not perceived harm, but actual harm.

Ef

Gene Shlomovich said...

"Based on my human understanding, outside the context of my faith and the Bible, I could easily justify taking small amounts of money by telling myself it's not that big a deal."

James, if that was so, if only through Written Torah one understood immorality of murder, lying, theft etc., how is that so many just as easily justify in their minds taking even BIG amounts of money even with having faith/Bible and all (just turn on TBN). You see, you can use the Bible, twist it just so as many indeed do, to rationalize all kinds of stuff one could do, should do and not do. This is why G-d places his requirements into the hearts of all men. This is also why I agree with the Bible when I read the following:

"since they [Gentiles] show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts now accusing, now even defending them)" (Romans 2:15)

and also:

"For when Gentiles, who do not have the Law, do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves" (Romans 2:14)

The key word above is instinctively, or by nature - meaning by G-d's design.

Gene Shlomovich said...

"Breaking His Shabbat is a sin and would exclude me from His kingdom if I persisted in ignoring His direct command to rest on that day."

This is why, Efrayim, you would perfectly fit the Judaizer theology as found in Acts 15. For you, by your own admission, Gentiles KEEPING salvation (being in "His kingdom) is depended on them keeping an observance from the Torah of Moses as given to Israel, specifically not violating Shabbat (observance of which is not one of the requirements placed on Gentile followers of Yeshua ANYWHERE in the Bible).

James said...

I don't read in the statement that *all* Gentiles do "instinctively" what is written in the Torah. I've known some unbelievers who do, but most don't (a casual reading of the news media tells us this). Also, there are people who have lived very "unTorah" lives who, by accepting Yeshua and learning of his teachings from the Bible (prison ministries comes to mind), have come to a completely different way of living and relating to the world around them.

By implication, you are stating that it is irrelevant for a Gentile believer to read the Bible since it's already written on our (Gentiles) hearts. I can't agree with that. As I Gentile and having my own experience, I can tell you that there is much to be learned from the Bible and much comfort to be gained from the Word of God.

Gene Shlomovich said...

"As I Gentile and having my own experience, I can tell you that there is much to be learned from the Bible and much comfort to be gained from the Word of God."

James, of course one can study G-d's word without being obligated to it or parts of it. Think about this: I am not a Kohaine or a Levite, but I can learn a lot from studying the very specific requirements given to them, even though all of them are not only NOT required for me, it would be grave SIN for me if I even attempted to take on the role of Kohaine or Levite (with me not being one).

"I don't read in the statement that *all* Gentiles do "instinctively" what is written in the Torah. I've known some unbelievers who do, but most don't"

James, you simply confirmed above that there's sin in this world. This by itself is nothing knew. In fact, even though we read the Torah, etc., we ourselves still very much sin. This doesn't mean that we don't know any better - clearly we do and still sin!

James said...

Gene, I still think you're getting hung up on the "obligation" issue and that my citing the Bible as the source for knowledge on issues of coveting and so forth is somehow co-opting the commandments that were given specifically for the Jew.

One thing I can't understand from your argument is how a Gentile should instinctively know not to murder but God's got to put it in writing for the Children of Israel. This seems to be a rather large hole in your logic.

Russ said...

James! Dude! That was so right on brother man.

Ef

Gene Shomovich said...

"God's got to put it in writing for the Children of Israel. This seems to be a rather large hole in your logic."

Far from a hole in my logic, James, you have just stumbled on the whole point of election of Israel - G-d DIDN'T have to put it in writing for anybody. He will still punish the sin of those who didn't have Written Torah (they are, as NT says, "without excuse"), but G-d did put it in writing for the Jewish people. He made a written and very specific, detailed contract specifically with them, a Mosaic covenant based on obedience to Torah. And because Israel was to be holy onto Him, G-d has relayed to Moses very specific laws and regulations that would enable Israel to function as a nation (not just individuals) unto G-d. G-d promised that He would punish Israel much more severely for disobedience precisely because they have the Written Torah (and He did, repeatedly, even after coming of Messiah). G-d took and still does very much take a much more lenient approach with Gentiles (including believers) who were never given the contract of obedience to Torah (as can be clearly seen ALL over NT).

This one One-Law ideology does such a disservice to Gentiles. It leads them to believe, falsely, that they are under a written contract with G-d and obligated to its terms (remember, the terms also include severe punishment), where as it's absolutely not the case.

Gut Shabbos.

James said...

I appreciate your dedication and your focus of purpose, but I'm not representing One Law or any other theology, so you can't dismiss me on that basis.

All I am and all this is about is finding as much of the truth as I can find in the Bible, not representing one person's theology or another. You make it sound as if the Bible, from Genesis to Revelation was only written for the Jew and that Gentiles are operating on a completely different set of programming. It's as if you think that only Jews are people and everyone else are like animals, just building nests and laying eggs on instinct, without any understanding of who we are or who God is.

The Bible isn't irrelevant for humanity. I am *not* claiming the specific covenants with the Jews for the rest of humanity, but the Bible, every letter and every syllable, was written for every man, woman, and child who ever lived or who ever will live. It is not robbing the Jews or Israel for any one of the rest of us to gain value and wisdom from what's written there.

Thou shalt not kill doesn't just belong to the Jews. It's universal. You said it yourself. It was there between Cain and Abel...before Moses and before Abraham.

God made the Jewish nation the light of the world so that the rest of us could see what a wise God you have and be drawn to Him too. I don't care about putting on tzitzit or laying tefillin, but I do care about knowing God and the Bible, whether I'm bound to certain specifics or not, was written not just for a fraction of a percent of humanity but for the entire human race. If it wasn't then it's just a set of rules for God's 'in club' and the rest of us can go hang.

Jews and Gentiles are unique, special, and different from each other, but sooner or later, you will come to realize that Yeshua is my shepherd too and Hashem is my God, just as He is yours. He made me as well as you. This does not take away from you, so please stop acting threatened. If God didn't want me grafted in, then I would live and die in my sins, no matter what I did or said.

One of my former grad school instructors once said, we're all unique, but no one is special. God loves us as individuals and he caused his Torah to be written on all our hearts. Some of the written parts are specifically for the Jews, but basic righteousness, charity, and holiness are for all of us, if we choose to accept it.

Go into Shabbat knowing that you are among God's treasured, splendous people...but go also knowing that God so loved the world, that He sent his only begotten Son for all humanity...not just the sons of Jacob.

Good Shabbos.

Anonymous said...

Hi James,

I find the title of this post, Who Am I?, to be ironic. From my reading of your posts over the last few months, you seem rather secure in your identity in Christ. It seems to me your struggle is with groups with cookie cutter theology. These parts we want, and these scraps may be useful later.

I'd like to suggest: so what? Life is a procession of accepting new depths of reality, including human folly. As long as groups make belonging a priority, and align themselves with movements that use distinctiveness to appear to be something, we will always be surrounded by those kowtowing to those games.

Once the Spirit got me to see that the 2nd coming will be in the same type of religious atmosphere as the 1st coming, I stopped pretending that spiritual evolution is suppose to be happening to the institutional church.

If we are of the nature of Jesus, the more mature we become, the more unique we become. Fitting in becomes a non-issue. What they say we can and can't do becomes a non-issue. Jesus knew they would never let him in their game, so he went outside the box to those who preferred freedom and found some welcome there. But still, he was suprised occasionally to find a kindred soul.

Here's a thought: maybe as we leave the game and move on to being who we know we are, God responds and draws others who are ready for that walk to journey together with us. He understands the need for community better than us. But can he help us to build a purer community of love if we prefer to sit with those who cherish less?

Playing to the audience of the only One that matters,

Brett

James said...

I agree with you, Brett. Peter said to the authorities of his day, "We must obey God, not men". The question we struggle with sometimes in the Messianic Judaism/One Law realm is what does "obedience" mean for the Gentile grafted into the Hebraic root?

I'm not as confused or undecided as some of my blog comments may seem, but it's sometimes helpful to measure your understanding against an outside standard to see what you really comprehend and believe. It would be arrogant for me to assume that I know everything there is to know about God, the Messiah, and my role in the Kingdom of Heaven. That's one of the reasons we study, as well as pray and seek the counsel of others. In the end, as you say, God is the final decider and arbiter of truth for each of us.

My journey has made some of my friends in my congregation a bit nervous, fearing that I'm going to walk away from them and abandon my role as teacher and companion on our path to draw closer to God. My goal instead, is not only to re-examine myself and gain a better understanding of who I am in Messiah, but to model such a journey for others. The questions I ask seem to be on the minds and hearts of many Gentile believers. This journey is another way to serve those fellow believers and I hope and pray, to serve God.