This is the moment when the Children of Israel agreed to obey all of the commandments of God, God's Torah, as a single people. While modern Judaism considers the Torah to be comprised of 613 specific positive and negative commandments, in a recent article on my congregation's blog, I published information indicating that, in the modern era and particularly in the diaspora (anywhere outside of Israel), observant Jews can only obey roughly 200 of the mitzvot, and even that number may be a bit of a stretch. Now let's consider a different perspective.
“‘Everyone who is native-born must do these things in this way when they present a food offering as an aroma pleasing to the LORD. For the generations to come, whenever a foreigner or anyone else living among you presents a food offering as an aroma pleasing to the LORD, they must do exactly as you do. The community is to have the same rules for you and for the foreigner residing among you; this is a lasting ordinance for the generations to come. You and the foreigner shall be the same before the LORD: The same laws and regulations will apply both to you and to the foreigner residing among you.’” -Numbers 15:13-16I've already stated in Who Belongs to the Covenant why I don't believe this or other, similar passages in the Torah, can be used to justify Gentile obligation to the entire body of commandments assigned to the Children of Israel at Sinai, but it's such passages as this from the Bible that many non-Jews in the Messianic movement use to justify the "One Law" or "One Torah" theology stating that both Jews and Gentiles who are Messianic have an identical obligation to the mitzvot.
I want to approach the issue of Gentile Torah obedience (compliance, subservience) from another direction. Having already established that no one can obey all of the 613 commandments today, I want to ask the Gentiles (and perhaps some of the Jews) in the Messianic movement a question. What do you do to obey your "obligation" to the Torah? Put another way, what does obeying the commandments actually mean in a practical, day-to-day sense?
There's another reason why we can't obey all of the 613 commandments today. They aren't all contained in the Five Books of Moses. Wait. Let me explain.
Each and every one of the 613 commandments or mitzvot is based on a specific verse or verses in the Five Books of Moses (I'm saying it this way because "Torah" can mean so much more than just Genesis through Deuteronomy). However, how they are interpreted and understood isn't always plain in the written Torah, and operationalizing the commandments may need a little help. That's where other meanings of the term "Torah" come in.
In a previous article on this blog called What Did Jesus Change: Ritual, I provided what I hope is a simple and straightforward way to understand the Jewish perspective on what "Torah" means. Based on a class my wife took at the local Chabad, the term "Torah" falls into three general categories: Written and Oral, Derived, and Legislated. Each of these explanations was previously published in my "ritual" blog post and I'm repeating them here.
The Written and Oral Torah
Torah can be considered both written and oral. Remember, Moses was on Sinai with God for 40 days and nights, so they must have talked about something. Actually, the oral law makes a certain amount of sense, once you realize that many of the commandments in the written Torah don't explain how to obey them (just how does one wear fringes on the four corners of a garment?). In that, the oral law modifies the written law so that it is "operationalized", describing the mechanics of how to perform the various commandments.
Derived Torah
After the written and oral Torah, there are the derived rulings, which is like how the U.S. Supreme Court interprets the U.S. Constitution. Originally, the Sanhedrin, in the days of Moses, was charged with interpreting the Torah for people, particularly in disputes, clarifying its meaning in difficult to understand situations. Also, over time, laws have to be understood in the light of new technological and social changes. For instance, laws previously passed in our country that addressed telegraph and telephone communications, some over a century old, have to be reinterpreted in light of the Internet.
Let's apply this to the Torah. When the laws dictating proper behavior on the Shabbat were first codified, automobiles and microwave ovens didn't exist. Once they were invented and put in popular use, the Shabbat laws had to be interpreted to render a judgment relative to whether or not these devices could be used lawfully on Shabbat. The directive to not drive on the Shabbat (at least in the Orthodox community) was derived from the original Shabbat commandments based on not igniting a flame on the Sabbath.
Legislated Torah
After this come legislated rulings. These can actually be local customs and can differ between, say the Ashkenazi and Sephardic Jews. For instance, among the Ashkenazi, it is prohibited to eat or possess rice and beans during the Passover season as they are considered "leaven". You might wonder why, since these items are never used to leaven bread, but in centuries past, these food items were sometimes mixed with flour. It wasn't always easy to tell which ones were and which were not mixed with flour, so the Beit Din (Rabbinic Court) ruled that all rice and beans were to be considered leaven in order to resolve the conflict. Although the original problem has probably long since vanished, the ruling is still binding.
From an observant Jew's point of view, all of this is "Torah". That is, all of this is binding and Jews are obligated to live a lifestyle taking each and every one of these rulings into account. I'm not saying that every Jew on earth obeys every individual commandment and mitzvot recorded, and even "observant Jews" don't obey the mitzvot in the same way, but these are the rulings and teachings that make up a lived Jewish experience.
Do you do all of this? Have you studied the Babylonian Talmud with a learned Rabbi in a recognized and accredited Yeshiva? Do you buy your meats from a kosher butcher and eat (for example) glatt kosher?
No? You don't? Why not?
Oh. Because the rulings of the Rabbis were made up and/or only apply to Jews and they aren't binding on Gentiles who are grafted in to Israel through the blood of Yeshua (Jesus).
If that's so, how can you (Gentile Messianic) say that you are obligated to the Torah and keep all of the Torah mitzvot identically with your Jewish brothers and sisters?
Don't you hate tough questions?
OK, perspective time. I'm not necessarily saying that obeying all of the mitzvot in robot-like fashion will be a benefit to you in your walk of holiness. Certainly, if you don't "buy into" the Jewish definition of "Torah", then keeping glatt kosher, refusing to drive on the Shabbat and walking to shul instead, and having men and women sit separately during worship isn't going to do you any good and it won't make you feel any closer to God. You'll just be "legalistic".
And yet for a world of observant Jewish people, these and many more such behaviors define their worship of and devotion to God. If Judaism and Christianity hadn't experienced its schism in the early centuries of the common era, how do you know that Gentile believers wouldn't (assuming you are of a One Law/One Torah perspective) be observing all of the written, oral, derived, and legislated Torah, just as many observant Jews do today?
Yet aren't you (we) Gentile Messianics "picking and choosing" which commandments to obey and which to disregard based on your (our) own preferences? I've heard some non-Jewish Messianics criticize "the Church" for doing the exact same thing. Is this getting to be at all sobering for anyone out there?
All that said, there are a few things to consider. For instance, we don't really know for sure all of the little details about how non-Jews are to implement obedience to God. If we did, it wouldn't be such a hot topic in Messianic Judaism and I wouldn't be writing this blog post. We only "believe" we know based on this opinion or that opinion. It all depends on who you follow and who you choose to trust as a leader or teacher.
When I took a good hard look at what Yeshua taught in the Book of Matthew and applied it to the Matthew 28:18-20 mandate, I came up with these conclusions. I'm not saying they make up the entirety of Gentile obligation to God, but they're a good place to start.
This morning, Rabbi Harav Yitzchak Ginsburgh said this on twitter:
For true peace on earth there must be one religion for all mankind. That religion is Judaism: 613 commandments for Jews and 7 for non-Jews.Given that it's only about two weeks until Christmas ("Peace on earth, good will to all men"), it isn't very difficult to understand why Rabbi Ginsburgh posted this comment. I note it here because it's the first time I've heard anyone in Judaism say that there should only be one religion: Judaism, and that it should be applied to everyone on earth (with the vast majority of people obeying the Seven Noahide Laws).
I want to invoke a much older authority to add a bit of illumination.
“A gentile once came to convert to Judaism, on the condition that he could learn the whole Torah while standing on one foot. He approached Shammai, who rejected him, so he went to Hillel, who taught him: "’That which you dislike don't do to your fellow: That’s the basis of Torah. The rest is commentary; go study!" -Shabbos 31This very famous passage from the Talmud tells a story of the great Jewish scholar and teacher Hillel, who lived in the late 1st century B.C.E. into the 1st decade of the Common Era, and whose lifetime overlapped that of Yeshua (Jesus). Here, Hillel seems to be conducting the fastest Gentile to Jewish conversion in the history of Judaism short of Ruth's statement to Naomi (Ruth 1:16). But what really happened?
I'm not prepared to analyze all of the nuances of this event, but notice what Hillel said was the core of the Jewish understanding of Torah: That which you dislike don't do to your fellow. This is a negative expression of the following:
And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself...' -Matthew 22:39 (quoting Leviticus 19:18)Hillel was a scrupulous teacher of halachah and ritual obedience and would hardly have disregarded the mitzvot of Sinai in favor of such a reductionist view of the Torah and yet, he's saying something here that we all need to understand. He's saying, in my opinion, if you cannot grasp the "obedience" of loving your neighbor and not doing any harm to him, will keeping the entire body of mitzvot including loving God mean anything to you?
If you expanded Hillel's statement just a bit, wouldn't it sound something like this?
There's much more I could say on this topic and I probably will in time, but I want you folks reading this article, especially those of you who are Gentiles in the Messianic movement, to stop and take a moment to question your assumptions. This entire blog was created for the purpose of questioning and testing assumptions. Unlike many pundits on the web and particularly in the Messianic blogosphere, I can't claim to be infallible, a perfect interpreter of the Bible, or some sort of "prophet". Like I wrote in the profile section of this blog, "I'm just one person searching for the light on the path and trying to understand my relationship with God".
Maybe some of this will help us all understand who we are in God.
Comments?
38 comments:
Shabbat Shalom! I just discovered your blog last week and so far it's great. Very thought-provoking. I noticed, though, that nobody so far has mentioned probably the simplest and most gracious attitude/approach to Gentiles and Torah that I myself have yet encountered: Didache 6:2.
"For if you are able to bear the whole yoke of the Lord, you shall be perfect; but if you are not able, do that which you are able."
-Shira
P.S. There is also Romans 14:4,
"Who are you to judge another's servant? Before his own master he stands or falls. And he will stand, because the Lord is able to make him stand."
Not directed at you, just a good attitude check for everyone in general. If we remember the plank in our own eye, we will not pounce on the speck in our brother's eye.
-Shira again :)
Greetings, Shira. Thanks for the complement and comments. If you've spent any time reviewing some of the blog posts, you know that I'm trying to explore the assumptions we tend to make about Jews and Gentiles and their relationship with the commandments of God.
While I wasn't specifically aware of Didache 6:2, I've found Romans 14:4 to be a good guide for how we tend to react to each other in the community of faith when our opinions differ.
Shavua Tov.
Didache is not a trustworthy document (it certainly not canonical). While borrowing heavily from Judaism's rituals, in places it is even anti-Judaic (Ch. 9, where, for example, it exhorts the Christians to not fast and pray the same days and ways as the hypocrites, citing the Jewish customs of the day). If anything, to me it prefigures the very early beginnings of Catholicism, borrowing heavily from ritualistic elements from Judaism but "denying power thereof" and shunning the originators of the practices.
"Yoke of the L-rd" does not necessarily refers to Torah. In fact such a term has never been used in Judaism to refer to Mosaic Torah observance (Yoke of Torah/Yoke of Heaven is used instead). Most likely it refers to Yoke of Yeshua found in Matthew 11:30.
Thanks for the "heads up", Gene. You might want to notify the folks at FFOZ about this since even a casual search of their site turns up abundant, positive references to the Didache.
Other than that (and since you stopped by), what did you think of this blog post?
"You might want to notify the folks at FFOZ about...their...positive references to the Didache."
James, of course they would because a few parts of it SEEM to fit with their "Divine Divination" theology. However, consider the fact that all of their references to Didache are from 2008 and prior. Today the "Divine Divination" and general promotion of Jewish Torah/customs observance for Gentiles figures less in their theology than ever before - the emphasis now is on education of Gentiles/Christians about the Jewishness of their faith. And that's a good thing.
As far as your post - I think you laid it out quite well, including the main point - it's impossible for anyone to observe Torah given to Israel while discounting Israel's own application and interpretation of Torah. Even Jews who have tried to live based on their own interpretations (e.g. Karaites) have, historically and numerically speaking, failed miserably and have become merely a footnote. Their influence on Israel has been minimal. The fate of the Karaites is also a lesson to some of the anti-rabbinic voices in Messianic Jewish movement.
Hopefully we'll hear reflections on your post from folks in the One-Law community.
Hopefully we'll hear reflections on your post from folks in the One-Law community.
I hope so, too. The main point of my missive is to inspire discussion on this topic and to question the assumptions made by One Law/One Torah that such congregations currently are Torah observant/compliant/submissive. If they/we aren't actually "obeying" the Torah as we imagine, what are we doing? If we believe Yeshua outlined for the Gentile disciples our obligations to God, what did he teach?
Had to look up 'Divine Divination' theology...I don't follow FFOZ that closely and was relieved to read 'Divine Invitation.' I was briefly attempting to rationalize a kosher form of 'Divine Divination'...must be Monday! Shalom, J
Boaz Michael once told me that he never intended "Divine Invitation" to become a theology, but some folks seem to be responding to it that way. I think at least some folks in the Messianic movement are trying to find an easy way to resolve the Gentile-Torah-response argument, but I don't think God made it that easy...otherwise it would be spelled out somewhere in the Apostolic Scriptures. Maybe we're meant to struggle with it. That's how I'm dealing with the issue anyway.
"Divine Divination"
Stupid spellchecker, although a quick search of Google does show that there's such a thing:)
"Boaz Michael once told me that he never intended "Divine Invitation" to become a theology, but some folks seem to be responding to it that way. "
Boaz pretty much told me that same and that they are moving away from that.
"Maybe we're meant to struggle with it."
I don't know if one needs to struggle with it - I mean Acts 15 pretty much sums it up when it comes to Gentiles observing Jewish laws and customs (not talking abstaining from evil and universal morality here).
The fact that the Holy Spirit herself/himself/itself was involved in the decision of Acts 15 gives an especially strong argument for Gentile freedom in most matters of Jewish religious laws, rituals and customs.
First Fruits of Zion has referenced the Didache recently, in fact, as recent as earlier this past week. :-)
As far as it being an untrustworthy document, being anti-Judaic, let's not jump to conclusions. Chapter 9 reads like this:
9:1 But as touching the eucharistic thanksgiving give ye thanks thus.
9:2 First, as regards the cup:
9:3 We give Thee thanks, O our Father, for the holy vine of Thy son David, which Thou madest known unto us through Thy Son Jesus;
9:4 Thine is the glory for ever and ever.
9:5 Then as regards the broken bread:
9:6 We give Thee thanks, O our Father, for the life and knowledge which Thou didst make known unto us through Thy Son Jesus;
9:7 Thine is the glory for ever and ever.
9:8 As this broken bread was scattered upon the mountains and being gathered together became one, so may Thy Church be gathered together from the ends of the earth into Thy kingdom;
9:9 for Thine is the glory and the power through Jesus Christ for ever and ever.
9:10 But let no one eat or drink of this eucharistic thanksgiving, but they that have been baptized into the name of the Lord;
9:11 for concerning this also the Lord hath said:
9:12 {Give not that which is holy to the dogs.}
Hardly anti-Judaic. Perhaps Gene was referring to chapter 8?
8:1 And let not your fastings be with the hypocrites, for they fast on the second and the fifth day of the week;
8:2 but do ye keep your fast on the fourth and on the preparation (the sixth) day.
8:3 Neither pray ye {as the hypocrites,} but as the Lord commanded in His Gospel, {thus pray ye.
8:4 Our Father, which art in heaven, hallowed be Thy name;
8:5 Thy kingdom come;
8:6 Thy will be done, as in heaven, so also on earth;
8:7 give us this day our daily bread;
8:8 and forgive us our debt, as we also forgive our debtors;
8:9 and lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from the evil one;}
8:10 for Thine is the power and the glory for ever and ever.
8:11 Three times in the day pray ye so.
Again, hardly anti-Judaic. If "hypocrites" is referring to the Judaic leadership of that time, well, then they are in line with Yeshua's own rebuke of that group.
Regarding Torah observance, it's every person's effort to serve the Lord best he can.
What FFOZ happens to be preaching at this moment in time, and whether Gene and Derek and UMJC and MJTI now approve of that theology, is totally irrelevant to my life as a servant of the Lord.
Keep God's commandments best you can. It doesn't have to be complicated, and you don't have to get approval from the religious nitpickers.
"Again, hardly anti-Judaic. If "hypocrites" is referring to the Judaic leadership of that time, well, then they are in line with Yeshua's own rebuke of that group."
Now, now, Judah. The difference here is that Yeshua's quarrel with Jewish leadership was an intra-Jewish one. At the same time he advised his disciples to still heed/observe and do what Jewish leadership demanded, yes even instructions of those who were hypocritical. Not only that, there's not a peep even from Apostle Paul (who faithfully kept both Torah and traditions) about changing customs just because "Jews" did it too (Didache makes a blanket statement referring to Jewish traditions).
So, if Didache here advises to change established Jewish ordinances and traditions in order to separate themselves from the established practices of the Jewish community, there's NOTHING pro-Jewish here at all. It's ANTI-Jewish and just early seedlings of what was to come shorty thereafter (and we all know what followed).
"totally irrelevant to my life as a servant of the Lord."
Sure it is, totally. That's why you kept so quiet about all of this:)
It's interesting to note, James, since you've been pining on about gentiles, that one manuscript's full title for the Didache is,
The Teaching of the Lord to the Gentiles by the Twelve Apostles
And regarding the "yoke of the Lord", Gene doesn't want that to mean the Torah, since he would have to change this theology.
Looking at the text, it may very well mean the Torah: the context is abstaining from foods, encouraging the reader to "bear what you are able", the chapter prior speaks of abstaining from things the Torah commands us against.
Also, interestingly, the Didache almost always refers to Yeshua as "the servant", not "the Lord".
It's quite plausible for "yoke of the Lord" to mean the Torah.
It's also worthy noting that the Didache does not mention Jews, Judeans, or Judaism.
Rather than be scared away by Gene's spooky accusations, I encourage you all to read it yourself. It's actually quite short, you can read the whole thing in a few minutes: the Didache.
Perhaps explaining why FFOZ is interested (and remains so) in the Didache, one author of a book on the Didache describes it as a book "that reveals more about how Jewish-Christians saw themselves and how they adapted their Judaism for gentiles than any other book in the Christian Scriptures."
If that description is at all an accurate one, how relevant indeed it is for Messianic gentiles.
I don't know if one needs to struggle with it - I mean Acts 15 pretty much sums it up when it comes to Gentiles observing Jewish laws and customs (not talking abstaining from evil and universal morality here).
I don't know if that's entirely true, although you could split hairs about what is a Jewish law and custom vs. what is universal morality since much of what you can consider "universal morality" is recorded as part of the written and oral Torah.
As far as Acts 15 is concerned, I already concluded that the Jerusalem letter cannot be used to limit a Gentile disciple's response to the teachings of Yeshua. Also, keep in mind, my entire conclusion is based on Yeshua's teachings as recorded by Matthew. What else might be found by reviewing the other Gospels as well as the Epistles?
This is what I mean by "struggle". While it's comforting to think that we have a total lock on all of our responsibilities to God based on our particular theology, as we can see from dynamic discussions such as this one, "the jury is still out" as far as a unified understanding. We all tend to choose interpretations of the Bible we personally feel comfortable about or a version that matches our perceived identity in the Lord, but isn't it possible that at least sometimes, we can be wrong?
The whole point of me posing little questions like this one is to challenge people's thinking and particularly their conclusions, because those conclusions don't have an impact just on any one individual's life, but on the life of the body of the Messiah as a whole.
Two other things:
Yeshua's quarrel with Jewish leadership was an intra-Jewish one. At the same time he advised his disciples to still heed/observe and do what Jewish leadership demanded, yes even instructions of those who were hypocritical. Not only that, there's not a peep even from Apostle Paul (who faithfully kept both Torah and traditions) about changing customs just because "Jews" did it too..
Gene, I doubt you meant it this way, but is it ever acceptable, from your perspective, for a Gentile believer to bring to the attention of a Jewish believer that the Jewish believer may be in error? Just because the root of Messianic faith is Jewish, does it make each and every Jew in the Messianic movement today infallible? I'm not pointing to you specifically. I find you to be open minded and willing to engage others different than you, but I don't know if it's true of some other Messianic Jews, particular some of those in leadership positions.
And regarding the "yoke of the Lord", Gene doesn't want that to mean the Torah, since he would have to change this theology.
I was going to ask about this. If the "yoke of the Messiah" isn't "the yoke of Torah", what is it?
Another interesting note from the Didache: it commands the gentile followers of Jesus to fast on Friday, which it calls Preparation Day (Didache 8).
Just thinking aloud here, but preparation day is the day you prepare for shabbat. If the Didache refers to Preparation Day before shabbat, it's plausible the gentiles were keeping the sabbath, fasting on preparation day, eating the sabbath meal the next. Certainly they knew what preparation day was, and considered it apart from the rest of the week.
Might be grasping at straws a bit, admittedly, but it's something to think about. :-)
"We all tend to choose interpretations of the Bible we personally feel comfortable about or a version that matches our perceived identity in the Lord, but isn't it possible that at least sometimes, we can be wrong?"
James, certainly.
"those conclusions don't have an impact just on any one individual's life, but on the life of the body of the Messiah as a whole."
That's why I think it's important to discern truth from fiction, especially if it can have damaging ramifications (like Paul did for Galatians, for example).
"is it ever acceptable, from your perspective, for a Gentile believer to bring to the attention of a Jewish believer that the Jewish believer may be in error? "
Of course, anyone should feel free - as long as it is done with the right spirit - meaning, without overemphasis on Jewish errors.
"If the "yoke of the Messiah" isn't "the yoke of Torah", what is it?"
In Christianity it's just "love" with many rules and traditions:)
"In Christianity it's just "love" with many rules and traditions:)"
I meant "WITHOUT."
"it commands the gentile followers of Jesus to fast on Friday, which it calls Preparation Day (Didache 8)."
It could simply be because Yeshua was crucified on preparation day before Passover (John 19:14 / Matthew 27:62). So, it seems to be instructions to fast before Christian observance of Passover (later Easter).
ME: "If the "yoke of the Messiah" isn't "the yoke of Torah", what is it?"
Gene: In Christianity it's just "love" without many rules and traditions:)
Except in Matthew 11:28-30, although I believe we can apply this teaching to Gentile Messianic disciples, Yeshua's immediate audience was Jewish. He could hardly have been telling his Jewish audience that his yoke was just "love" without many rules and traditions.
Judah: Just thinking aloud here, but preparation day is the day you prepare for shabbat. If the Didache refers to Preparation Day before shabbat, it's plausible the gentiles were keeping the sabbath, fasting on preparation day, eating the sabbath meal the next. Certainly they knew what preparation day was, and considered it apart from the rest of the week.
Doesn't seem so far fetched, Judah. When I took a look at Gentiles and the Sabbath, I found sufficient evidence (at least as far as my understanding goes) to apply Shabbat observance to Gentile Messianic disciples as well as to Jews (although there are specific applications of the Shabbat just for Jews).
Since Gentile disciples and God fearers in the 1st century C.E. would have been worshiping in Jewish synagogues or have taken the pattern of their worship from Jewish synagogues, it's a foregone conclusion that Gentiles not only would have worshiped on the Shabbat but would have emulated their Jewish mentors and rested on the Shabbat.
Apparently, I'm going to have to access a copy of the Didache just to become more familiar with what it really does say.
"He could hardly have been telling his Jewish audience that his yoke was just "love" without many rules and traditions."
James, I am talking about the commonly accepted understanding in Western Christianity that Jesus removed the yoke/burden of "the Law". Interestingly enough, many in One Law (and in some MJ circles as well!) argue that Yeshua removed the burden of the pharisaic/rabbinical yoke so that Torah can be practiced the "Biblical way".
Thanks for the clarification, Gene. I'm familiar with both the traditional Christian and One Law interpretations, but neither one seems to ring true, since there appears to be some evidence in the Apostolic Scriptures (see the comments in this blog post) that Yeshua's disciples continued to operate under the pharisaic/rabbinical yoke after the resurrection. I should note though, that Peter's comment in Acts 15:10 also has a "yoke message" and needs to be addressed.
The question I'm asking in this blog is whether or not One Law Gentile Messianics "keep the Torah" in a valid manner and if not, what would they (we) have to do (assuming we either are "obligated" to do so or at least have such a desire) to be successful in our endeavors?
My suggestion is that One Law groups tend to pick and choose which parts of the Torah or "obey" and even then, don't "obey" the Torah commandments they select within the boundaries of those mitzvot. Even if One Law groups don't change their basic premise, they seem to need to re-evaluate what Torah obedience means and then adjust behavior accordingly.
While I'm still working on the "obligation" part as far as my own understanding is concerned, I still believe that Gentile Torah obligation is less or at least different than Jewish obligation, but very likely more or different than what BI/MJ imagines it to be.
That should be "BE/MJ". All these acronyms are hard to manage sometimes.
"My suggestion is that One Law groups tend to pick and choose which parts of the Torah or "obey" and even then, don't "obey" the Torah commandments they select within the boundaries of those mitzvot."
James, this describes the vast majority of Messianic JEWISH groups as well. If you remember our discussion from months ago, there are NO Orthodox or even [seriously] Conservative MJ congregations within UMJC/IAMCS/etc (pick your acronym).
There are Gentile groups [online] who purport to be "Orthodox" and even offer conversions to "Orthodox Judaism", but who are they kidding!
There are only individuals, most of whom make their home within mainstream synagogues because present-day MJ communities simply does not offer either theological and/or practical environment for those seeking a traditional to live a Jewish lifestyle with their families. That's the state of MJ affairs today. Clearly, we have a long way to go.
That doesn't speak well of MJTI or many of the individuals who represent BE/MJ and who comment in the Messianic blogosphere.
I'm not trying to beat anyone over the head here, but as you say, it seems that we all, Jew and Gentile alike, have a long way to go in understanding our obligations to God and then actually fulfilling them. It would be nice if more folks who write on these topics would present their own struggles and challenges, and not just their accomplishments. The rest of us could be encouraged.
On at least few occasions, whenever I would describe the state of affairs within MJ movement AND make even slightest comparison with mainstream Judaism, some MJ folks retort "Who said that we should be like the Orthodox [or insert your Judaism stream here]!?"
My first thought is: wow, what's with the anti-Orthodoxy? My second thought, why shouldn't we [at least some/many groups of us who desire a traditional lifestyle] be LIKE our fellow non-secular Jews? Are we not Jews too? Did not Apostle Shaul continue to identify himself (in present tense) with a Pharisaic movement even as a believer. Clearly, this is not for everyone, but traditional lifestyle is looked down upon among MJs as extreme and divisive, from my experience. At the most, I've seen (at conferences, for example) - oh, that nice if you choose to, but keep it to yourself.
Shalom uvracha,
No one can read Acts 15 and honestly conclude that those are all the Commandments for a Gentile believer. It's only a starting point, so that the believer can learn with fear and trembling.
Through Yeshua Gentile believers have been grafted into the common wealth of Israel! See Ephesians 2:12-13
Gene said .."Yoke of the L-rd" does not necessarily refers to Torah. In fact such a term has never been used in Judaism to refer to Mosaic Torah observance (Yoke of Torah/Yoke of Heaven is used instead). Most likely it refers to Yoke of Yeshua found in Matthew 11:30.
Maybe it's not said Yoke of Torah, but Yoke of Heaven means the same.
m.Avot 3:5 "Rabbi Nehunia ben Hakkanah said: Whoever takes upon himself the yoke of Torah, they remove from him the yoke of government and the yoke of worldly concerns, and whoever breaks off from himself the yoke of Torah, they place upon himself the yoke of government and the yoke of worldly concerns.
Yeshua yoke of discipleship is a rabbinic metaphor for "Torah".
I don't believe in picking and choosing which commandments we want to obey and which ones we don't, that's being a hypocrite. ...But i do believe that HaShem's Torah is for His people (to the Jew first and also the Gentile).
All that said, rey, do you believe that Gentiles in the Messianic movement today are as "Torah obedient" as God intended them to be? If not, what could be improved?
Clearly, this is not for everyone, but traditional lifestyle is looked down upon among MJs as extreme and divisive, from my experience. At the most, I've seen (at conferences, for example) - oh, that nice if you choose to, but keep it to yourself.
This is certainly an interesting dilemma because the more vocal Messianic Jews in the blogosphere seem to especially tout their own "Torah compliance" and the Gentiles that we should keep our hands off of things uniquely Jewish. On the other hand, the level of observance of Jews in "the movement" may not be anywhere near what a traditional observant Jew would display.
As you've previously stated Gene, many Jews in the Messianic movement come from a prior church experience and may still be operating under that general understanding, despite avidly defending a Jewish identity.
The only thing I can conclude, at least based on your comments, is that Messianic Judaism as a whole (not just the Gentile or Jewish participants) continues to be in search of a unified and definitive identity.
James,
You said "do you believe that Gentiles in the Messianic movement today are as "Torah obedient" as God intended them to be?" - No i don't believe we are were G-d would want us to be. I believe there is so much that we can improve, I myself want to improve much more.
James on another note, do you think that we could speak in private? Email: reyluque23@gmail.com
From Gene: "Did not Apostle Shaul continue to identify himself (in present tense) with a Pharisaic movement even as a believer. Clearly, this is not for everyone, but traditional lifestyle is looked down upon among MJs as extreme and divisive, from my experience."
This has been my experience as well. I recall during lunch many years ago with a prominent MJ scholar being asked by him why did I dress like an Orthodox Jew? Outside of a white dress shirt and black pants, the only Jewish 'garb' I was wearing was a kippah and tzitzit. Paul is a wonderful example if we read what he says about himself and if we examine his actions. He did not leave his 'previous' lifestyle as a Jew.
From James: "The only thing I can conclude, at least based on your comments, is that Messianic Judaism as a whole (not just the Gentile or Jewish participants) continues to be in search of a unified and definitive identity."
As diverse as the Jewish world is I am not sure that we are going to achieve 'a unified and definitive identity.' Example, there are three conservative synagogues within 50 miles of each other in my region, being familiar with each of them I can tell you that the minhagim could not be more different between them. Although there are some similarities, there are great differences as well--all three are part of the USCJ. Of the four Messianic Jewish synagogues in our region, again, the differences could not be more striking; a diversity based mainly on the 'Jewish experience' of the leadership.
We are a 'young' movement, at least in our modern expression; I am sure that over time there will be a greater effort made within some of the MJ organizations to solidify our identity and practice. Again, I am not entirely sure that this will work, as it does not work within traditional Judaism, even within the OU. The outcome of such an effort would require implementation on the local level, which I am sure would be met with some resistance.
Shalom, Justin
The blog post I wrote today illustrates the drive I have to pursue questions of identity and unity. It's like having a "splinter in my mind", so to speak. It's something that won't leave me alone and it is constantly pushing me forward.
We tend to become at ease with our individual or our corporate "sacred cows" and "comfort zones", but maturity requires stepping out of quiet, comfortable places and into struggle and conflict. We only get answers, not by just asking questions, but by going out and pursuing questions.
Blessings James;
I certainly commend your drive to pursue these questions; and I have witnessed the diversity of opinion and experience in the comments which you have received.
My personal issue with the debate which appears to be raging today is that I am not sure that anyone can adequately answer these questions for all parties concerned. I read Toby Janicki's article 'One Law for All' in the new Messiah Journal which came today and I am not sure that it answers any questions except what is, by definition, a גר,'ger'...'stranger' or 'sojourner;’ in my very humble opinion that designation for the born-again 'gentile' does change; Paul did teach this, as I personally read it.
So which one of us is correct? Some will say he is; others will say I am. Ultimately, for both Jew and Gentile our identity is not found in flesh designation but in Messiah Yeshua. Although for some this argument, perhaps even for Toby, is about obligation regarding Torah mitzvot, I believe that our first obligation is to Messiah Himself and to answer His call to ‘Follow Me.’ We are to be disciples of the Master and to disciple those who are entering into covenant relationship with Him—how can I disciple anyone without teaching them His Will as revealed in the entire canon of His Word? How can I disciple anyone when there is no expected change in lifestyle—what are they turning away from and turning to?
James if you knew me you would know that I 1) don’t believe in comfort zones and 2) don’t believe in sacred cows. I have very strong opinions and do express those when necessary. How did I come to those strong opinions? Lots and lots of questions; however, I also believe that we must remember that Messiah commanded us to be at peace with each other; but there does not seem to be much peace among brethren as of late, especially in the Messianic community. How can we claim to be ‘Torah observant’ when we cannot follow the most basic commands of the Master Himself? This is a question that concerns me greatly; one which I have attempted to rectify in my own life and walk; and one which I believe the current stream of Messianic pundits must address for themselves.
Shalom,
Justin
It is true that we are commanded to love one another. That was a direct commandment of the Master and was repeated by John in 1 John 3. Of the Torah commandments, I am sure we Gentiles are directed to obey what is collected here, which includes a Shabbat observance, being a light to the world, living a life of humility, being merciful, and many other mitzvot.
Perhaps the differences between Messianic Jews and Gentiles will continue to divide us, despite our best efforts, until the return of the Messiah. That doesn't mean we shouldn't continue trying to move forward, to build bridges, to show kindness, and to emulate the qualities the Master himself lived to the fullest.
"It is true that we are commanded to love one another. That was a direct commandment of the Master and was repeated by John in 1 John 3. Of the Torah commandments, I am sure we Gentiles are directed to obey what is collected here, which includes a Shabbat observance, being a light to the world, living a life of humility, being merciful, and many other mitzvot.
Perhaps the differences between Messianic Jews and Gentiles will continue to divide us, despite our best efforts, until the return of the Messiah. That doesn't mean we shouldn't continue trying to move forward, to build bridges, to show kindness, and to emulate the qualities the Master himself lived to the fullest."
Amen to all the above. That is exactly what all followers of Messiah need to do; I don't think any of have mastered this yet.
Shalom, J
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