Thursday, December 2, 2010

The Unequal Yoke

Do not be yoked together with unbelievers. For what do righteousness and wickedness have in common? Or what fellowship can light have with darkness? What harmony is there between Christ and Belial? Or what does a believer have in common with an unbeliever? What agreement is there between the temple of God and idols? For we are the temple of the living God... -2 Corinthians 6:14-16

The Messianic Intermarriage Series

Update: December 6, 2010: As promised, Judah Gabriel Himango published his entry into this series today on this blog: Sweet Forbidden Jew-Gentile Love Makin'. Give it a read. Now, continue reading my original missive.

That's a terrible thing to say about a married couple! OK, I know Paul wasn't writing about married couples but rather issuing a warning against idolatry, but listen. He was cautioning members of the body of believers; the body of Messiah, to avoid going into partnerships or entering into relationships with unbelievers out of fear that such associations would lead the believers away from God and into idolatry (or back into idolatry, if applied to his Gentile audience). He wasn't wrong, either. Look at this:
While Israel was staying in Shittim, the men began to indulge in sexual immorality with Moabite women, who invited them to the sacrifices to their gods. The people ate the sacrificial meal and bowed down before these gods. So Israel yoked themselves to the Baal of Peor. And the LORD’s anger burned against them. -Numbers 25:1-3
We see a very clear picture of how unequal interrelationship (and probably intermarriage) can lead the Jewish people away from God and into idol worship. This is why there is a such a strong prohibition against intermarriage in Judaism and why it's such a devastating tragedy that intermarriage and assimilation among the Jewish people today is so high. Consider this:
Rates of interreligious marriage vary widely: In the United States, they are just under 50%, in the United Kingdom, around 53%, in France, around 30%, and in Australia and Mexico, as low as 10%. In the United States, only about a third of children from intermarriages affiliate themselves with Jewish religious practice. The result is that most countries in the Diaspora have steady or slightly declining religiously Jewish populations as Jews continue to assimilate into the countries in which they live.
That's really terrible. What Hitler failed to do in the Holocaust could well be accomplished through Jewish intermarriage with Christians or secular Gentiles. It seems like unequal yoking is really dangerous in marriage. I'm a Gentile and my wife is Jewish! Should I divorce her for the sake of her Judaism?
To the rest I say this (I, not the Lord): If any brother has a wife who is not a believer and she is willing to live with him, he must not divorce her. And if a woman has a husband who is not a believer and he is willing to live with her, she must not divorce him. For the unbelieving husband has been sanctified through his wife, and the unbelieving wife has been sanctified through her believing husband. Otherwise your children would be unclean, but as it is, they are holy. -1 Corinthians 7:12-14
Of course Paul goes out of his way to make sure we know this is his personal opinion and not a revelation from the Messiah, so we have to accept his words with that in mind. However, they are particularly applicable to my situation since I am a Gentile Christian (I consider myself "Messianic" but my wife thinks of me as a "Christian") and my wife is genetically, ethnically, and religiously (non-Messianic) Jewish. Here's some background.

When my wife and I were married, we were both secular with no faith basis between us at all. My parents raised me Lutheran (I left the church the first chance I got) while my wife's mother was Jewish and her father Christian Scientist. Both of my wife's parents walked away from their faiths before they were married, so my wife had no conscious connection to either faith group growing up. Only in adulthood did she discover her Judaism.

After we had children and moved to Idaho, we were lead to Christianity by the Spirit of God (through a highly unlikely series of events) and started attending a church. Neither of us felt like we really fit in and we kept asking questions (What happened to the Sabbath? How was the Law done away with? Why did God abandon the Jews?) no one could answer.

Through a fluke (or the Spirit of God), my wife discovered a local Messianic congregation (pretty much One Law, especially at that point) and she was hooked. While I eventually became attached to the Messianic congregation, my wife took all she could from the experience but remained unsatisfied. She still longed to establish a real relationship with the Jewish community and to live as a Jew. She started attending the Reform synagogue and for awhile, I attended with her and the kids. When the Chabad arrived in Boise, she began spending an increasing amount of time with them.

I'm not sure when she put aside her faith in Yeshua but it has become an accomplished fact. My children, who are all now in their early 20s, have varying degrees of a Jewish identity and none of them currently affiliate themselves with Christianity or the Messianic movement.

So here I am floating on a sea in a one-person raft.

But rather than intermarriage resulting in my Jewish wife and children being assimilated into Christianity or secular (non-Jewish) humanity, the reverse has happened. In spite of what Paul suggests in 1 Corinthians 7:12-14, do I still have a shot at "saving" my wife and bringing her back to an understanding of Yeshua as the Messiah? That's up to God. When I talk to her, my wife's acceptance of the Chabad Rabbi's teachings seems absolute. She has entered into Judaism wholeheartedly and, out of her four siblings, she is the only one to truly be Jewish. Whatever her original connection to Christianity once was, faith in Christ has gone the way of the Dodo bird.

As I consider our circumstances, I recall something else Paul said; something he said was from the Lord:
To the married I give this command (not I, but the Lord): A wife must not separate from her husband. But if she does, she must remain unmarried or else be reconciled to her husband. And a husband must not divorce his wife. -1 Corinthians 7:10-11
I previously wrote on the topic of intermarriage on my congregation's blog in Mixed and Does God Love Gentiles Too. Particularly in the latter blog post, some BE/MJ (Bilateral Ecclesiology/Messianic Judaism) folks had some pretty rough comments to make about me having the nerve to marry a Jew, as if I should divorce her for her own sake or even "take a long walk off a short pier". The comments in that latter blog post also were a large part of the reason why I started this personal blog, beginning with this post.

It's been just five months since I created this blog, and in one sense, I feel like I've covered a lot of territory. In another sense though, I feel like I'm still spinning my wheels. This is a blog, not only in search of a bridge between Gentiles and Jews in the Messianic world, but also a personal exploration of whether I, as a Gentile and an individual, have any place among Messianics or even in any faith community. My wife and I discovered we didn't fit into a traditional Christian church setting, but while she has found her place in the world, have I found mine?

This isn't generally known (until now), but a few people visiting my congregation have raised an eyebrow or two because my wife is worshiping in a Jewish synagogue while I'm teaching and assuming a leadership role in a Messianic congregation. Right before the High Holidays, I presented my concerns to the board. I offered them the opportunity to ask for my resignation if they felt that my position was not appropriate in terms of Paul's lessons in the Bible and the congregations' requirements (I should mention at this point that two of the board members, one Jewish and one Gentile, are widowed, while the other Jewish board member has a wife who attends a Christian church). The board's conclusion was that, while it would be very desirable and even required for a person in leadership to be unified with his or her wife in the faith, given our circumstances as a small congregation with limited resources, they affirmed that I had a significant and constructive role in the congregation's leadership.

So here I am...for now.

This all leads me to an unusual but possibly encouraging place:
Pharaoh said to Joseph, "I am Pharaoh; yet without you, no one shall lift up hand or foot in all the land of Egypt." Pharaoh then gave Joseph the name Zaphenath-paneah; and he gave him for a wife Asenath daughter of Poti-phera, priest of On. -Genesis 41:44-45
Before the years of famine came, Joseph became the father of two sons, whom Asenath daughter of Poti-phera, priest of On, bore to him. Joseph named the first-born Manasseh, meaning, "God has made me forget completely my hardship and my parental home." And the second he named Ephraim, meaning, "God has made me fertile in the land of my affliction." -Genesis 41:50-52
Joseph not only is given a completely Egyptian identity by Pharaoh as Viceroy over the land, but he marries an Egyptian noblewoman and has two children by his wife in Egypt. From all outward appearances, Joseph becomes the Egyptian "Zaphenath-paneah" and is second only to Pharaoh, King of Egypt, in power and authority.

If any guy had every reason in the world to assimilate after intermarriage, it was Joseph...but he didn't.
On the third day Joseph said to them, "Do this and you shall live, for I am a God-fearing man. -Genesis 42:18
Of course, the word Joseph uses for "God" is the "generic" God, but I don't believe there's a scholar on earth, Jewish or Christian, who would think that Joseph had given up his Jewish identity or abandoned his devotion to the God of the Hebrews to become an Egyptian idolater. In fact, it was God who continually blessed Joseph and all that he did for the sake of the Children of Israel and the world. Joseph, despite what must have been enormous temptations to do otherwise, remained faithful to God and lived a life dedicated to God's purpose...

...even though he married a non-Jew in a foreign land, had children with his non-Jewish wife, raised his children in a non-Jewish land, and lived the outward lifestyle of an Egyptian nobleman.

I'm not saying that every Jew should marry a non-Jew, even when both are Messianic, but I am saying that when such marriages exist among you, the Gentile involved is not automatically trying to take the Judaism out of the Jew. We Gentiles in intermarriages are not evil, horrible, anti-Semitic monsters, and we are not trying to eliminate the Jewish presence on the earth (not that God would allow it, even if we had such a goal).

Judah Gabriel Himango and I have agreed to post a series of blogs on the topic of Jewish-Gentile intermarriage within the Messianic community. This is my opening article as part of the project and over the next few weeks, we'll be blogging back and forth and linking our blog posts to each other in the hope that opening such a dialogue will serve to shed some light on a particular reality. There is intermarriage in the Messianic world and in fact, intermarriage may be especially unavoidable and inevitable within the Messianic community, much more so than in the general world population. This is because, by definition, you have Jews and Gentiles worshiping the same God and the same Messiah within the same context and often, within the same congregation.

What are we going to do about it?

Addendum: I'm posting a link to a document written by David Rudolph, Ph.D. called Intermarriage Statistics. It contains some very illuminating information about the details and results of intermarriage between Jews and Gentiles. Worth the read.

38 comments:

Gene Shlomovich said...

It's sometimes the case among intermarried couples that the Gentile spouse will be even MORE supportive of family's observances of Judaism than the Jew himself/herself. But it's an exception to the reality on the ground, an exception that proves the rule.

It is also true that sometimes an intermarried Jew, often many years after getting married to a Gentile, suddenly "wakes up" and decides to redouble his/her allegiance to his people and observance of Judaism precisely because he/she's intermarried. In effect, by becoming especially zealous they are trying to compensate for the great dilution of their own and their children's Jewish identity that has occurred as a result of marrying out. There's hope for such folks and their progeny if this occurs early in the marriage when the children are still young.

Jewish followers of Yeshua should be especially weary of intermarriage because its historic destructive impact on the Jewish people is plain to see. In effect, if we claim to be the representatives of the true Maschiach the burden of proof (and witness) is on us - we must show that being a Jew and becoming a believer in Israel's Messiah does not lead to destruction of the Jewish people from within, but instead strengthens it. We must also show that we can be united with our Gentile brothers/G-d Fearers/non-Jewish followers of Israel's Messiah while not succumbing to pressures of intermarriage such close interaction tends to lead to.

So far, this type of witness has been quite poor to say the least - intermarriage rates among MJs approach at least 90% (or higher) in my experience, and in general there's an attitude of indifference to and even wholesale encouragement of intermarriage (i.e. as long as one marries "in the L-rd", one partner's lack of Jewish identity matters not) .

James said...

That's a good argument for discouraging intermarriage within the Messianic Jewish community, but what about those of us who are already married to a Jewish spouse? It was never my intention to make her be not Jewish and I've encouraged her exploration of her Jewish identity in every way. We weren't "religious" when we got married, so there was no "hue and cry" that we were doing the "wrong thing" from any family member.

Are we to be considered badly by the Messianic Jewish community because we got married (almost 28 years ago) when none of these concerns were issues in our lives?

Gene Shlomovich said...

"Are we to be considered badly by the Messianic Jewish community because we got married (almost 28 years ago) when none of these concerns were issues in our lives?"

Of course not. Even in the traditional mainstream Jewish community (like Chabad, for example) secular intermarried Jews returning to Judaism are not looked down upon or treated badly. Gentile spouses are also welcomed, but are encouraged and expected to convert, especially in very traditional communities. In most cases the intermarried secular couples are warmly welcomed, although there are exceptions to this here and there, mostly dependent on individual attitudes rather than a wholesale policy.

However, what one will not find is support for and acceptance of intermarriage as allowed, normative and healthy (as is the case in MJ congregations), but instead an acknowledgment of a serious problem that must be overcome. Liberal Jewish movements are a whole other matter altogether and have care little about effects of intermarriage (I am not discussing those.)

James said...

OK. Two issues:

Even in the traditional mainstream Jewish community (like Chabad, for example) secular intermarried Jews returning to Judaism are not looked down upon or treated badly. Gentile spouses are also welcomed, but are encouraged and expected to convert, especially in very traditional communities. In most cases the intermarried secular couples are warmly welcomed...

I know a Gentile guy who is married to a Jew and who attends our local Chabad and everybody seems OK with him. I don't know if he intends on converting, but that's between him, his wife, the Rabbi, and God. On the other hand, I sometimes feel less accepted as a Gentile married to a Jewish wife in the Messianic world than I do within larger Judaism. It's as if, Messianic Judaism being a "minority" within Judaism, feels as if it has to work harder to defend its walls.

Next issue (I have no personal experience with this but I have a feeling others around here do). What happens if a Jew and a Gentile within the Messianic world fall in love and want to marry, in spite of all the warnings that very bad things could happen? Should they pull a "Romeo and Juliet" and marry against all odds or resign themselves be sadly and sorrowfully separated forever for the sake of preserving the Jewish people?

It's one thing to discuss general principles and another thing to bring it down to the individual human level.

Judah Gabriel Himango said...

Moving post, James. I appreciate your honesty and frankness. Stuff like this is hard to talk about. Talking about your wife dropping Yeshua for Chabad Judaism is a tough thing to swallow, let alone talk about in a public forum like this.

Thank you.

Perhaps the best you can do, James, is love your wife 100%. It is easy, I think, to have strife in the marriage when husband and wife aren't united in faith. So, I encourage you in your marriage and say, be blessed from the Lord himself, let his hand be on you and your wife to the end.

Don't let the theological idealists in ivory towers frown on your marriage. Don't let them discourage you. Do you believe the Lord brought the two of you together? Then don't let any person tear it down. Be strengthened.

Be blessed, you and your wife both.

Gene Shlomovich said...

"What happens if a Jew and a Gentile within the Messianic world fall in love and want to marry, in spite of all the warnings that very bad things could happen? Should they pull a "Romeo and Juliet" and marry against all odds or resign themselves be sadly and sorrowfully separated forever for the sake of preserving the Jewish people?"

Today people get married without regard about opinions of others, societal or communal norms. So, why even ask the question? Let them do what they want, there's no one to stop them! Jews outside of MJM do this all the time as well. However, let's be honest here - usually, for a Jew to consider intermarriage already means that they (at least at that time) don't care very much about their own Judaism or the impact intermarriage would have on their children (or Israel as a people). After all, they are in love!

The regret part about not having cared about the choice of non-Jewish spouse comes many years later. I've seen this time and time again among Messianic Jews who became more serious about their Judaism but whose Gentile spouses and grown children want little to do with anything Jewish.

James said...

Perhaps the best you can do, James, is love your wife 100%. It is easy, I think, to have strife in the marriage when husband and wife aren't united in faith.

Actually Judah, I don't exactly experience "strife" between us due to our differences in faith. In fact, we seem to be getting along better at this stage of our marriage than in times past. That said, there are a few topics of conversation I tend to avoid because I know they'll lead to a disagreement with no easy resolution. To be continued on that.

The regret part about not having cared about the choice of non-Jewish spouse comes many years later. I've seen this time and time again among Messianic Jews who became more serious about their Judaism but whose Gentile spouses and grown children want little to do with anything Jewish.

I've actually wondered about that. When my wife and I got married, being Jewish wasn't an integral part of her life. Her mother had abandoned her Judaism so it wasn't until my wife was a young adult that she even knew she was Jewish. I do occasionally wonder if she rather pines for a Jewish husband, even though, 28 years ago, we couldn't possibly have foreseen all these events.

Gene Shlomovich said...

"I do occasionally wonder if she rather pines for a Jewish husband, even though, 28 years ago, we couldn't possibly have foreseen all these events."

I don't know what's going on with you guys (nor do I want to know), but I wouldn't think that your wife is under much pressure or longing to have a Jewish mate. Certainly not in comparison to a newly married Jewish man, for example, with a non-Jewish wife and children. Your children are grown and are considered halachically Jewish anyway and out of the house, so the Rabbi in your wife's shul would not stress too much about her not having the "proper Jewish home." You are not pressuring your wife to convert to Christianity. Your in-laws are not there to lament the fact that you are not Jewish. Heck, from where I sit, I don't see a problem:)

Zion/Jeruz said...

Great post! I can relate, my family has intermarriage Jewish-Gentile as well. The issue however, is really greater than Jewish and Gentile mix, it is in all interfaith marriages and mixed culture marriages...

And I believe being equally yoked is more or less excellent advice... such as an athiest should marry an athiest, and a hindu a hindu, strong cultured groups such as Indian marry into Indian culture, as it will most likely make life so much easier and pleasing, but to be honest, if you love someone, I don't think Culture, Faith, or Religion should be a greater priority than Love... Is there really a commandment that is greater than Love, because this is exactly what you have described others saying proclaiming to you, and that is sad.

I think it does come down to an issue of love and who God has for us and who God blesses us with. And people who put culture or religion or faith, etc over Love, have really missed the boat.

By the way, great example with Joseph, there are other excellent examples in the Bible as well!

Gene Shlomovich said...

"to be honest, if you love someone, I don't think Culture, Faith, or Religion should be a greater priority than Love... Is there really a commandment that is greater than Love, because this is exactly what you have described others saying proclaiming to you, and that is sad."

Jerus, you may be confusing the modern notion of romantic love and attraction that leads people to marry each other consequences be damned, with love that we are to have for other human beings in general. We must love everyone, but it doesn't mean that we are allowed to marry everyone. Big difference. There are many stories in the Bible of intermarriage for the sake of romantic love and many of them do not end well.

Zion/Jeruz said...

Jerus, you may be confusing the modern notion of romantic love and attraction that leads people to marry each other consequences be damned, with love that we are to have for other human beings in general. We must love everyone, but it doesn't mean that we are allowed to marry everyone. Big difference.

Not at all, what you described is lust, not love. And if you focus on the topic I was responding to, there is no possible way you could have concluded that I was speaking of marrying everything you love or were you just picking an argument?

Basic straw man.

There are many stories in the Bible of intermarriage for the sake of romantic love and many of them do not end well.

Again another straw man.

My point is this, since you obviously did not get it or are just playing around. Marriage is a very important decision, not to be taken lightly. If one goes to a good pre-marriage counselor, one of the questions that will be raised is, why are you marrying this person?... Generally one will come out with a list of reasons, starting with the most important.

It seems that some will put Faith, Religion and Culture before Love... It is more important that they be white or black or poor or rich or gentile or jew, christian or hindu, than it is Love, and if this is the case, I simply think you have missed the boat.

Is it more important when deciding whether to marry that you marry someone who is Jewish, Gene, or is it more important that you have an amazing love for one another as your first and foremost determining factor? Because based on what people have been saying to James, they would say first reason, Jewish...

James said...

I don't know what's going on with you guys (nor do I want to know), but I wouldn't think that your wife is under much pressure or longing to have a Jewish mate. Certainly not in comparison to a newly married Jewish man, for example, with a non-Jewish wife and children. Your children are grown and are considered halachically Jewish anyway and out of the house, so the Rabbi in your wife's shul would not stress too much about her not having the "proper Jewish home." You are not pressuring your wife to convert to Christianity. Your in-laws are not there to lament the fact that you are not Jewish. Heck, from where I sit, I don't see a problem:)

Two issues:

First issue is actually what I imagine is more my wife's issue (though maybe it isn't). She pursued her Judaism later in life, even though she was aware that her mother was Jewish and therefore she was Jewish before she ever met me. After we married but before we had children, she expressed a desire to approach a Rabbi and ask about being able to worship as a Jew and to learn more about her Judaism. I didn't have any problem with this, though I was as clueless as she was at that point. However she was intimidated at the thought of even calling a Rabbi, probably out of the fear that she'd be rejected since they might not consider her "a real Jew". She never made the call.

Now that she's more connected to and more comfortable with her Jewish identity, perhaps she wonders what life would have been like if she had been more bold about pursuing Judaism earlier in life.

I don't know if she actually experiences these regrets, but it's something to consider.

Second issue is the issue that's attracting so much conversation in regards to this topic. Does Messianic Judaism actually have less tolerance for mixed marriages than other forms of Judaism? No other form of Judaism acknowledges that both Gentiles and Jews worship the same God and the same Messiah. While other forms of Judaism will acknowledge that Christianity worships the same God, Christians are also seen as isolators because they worship a man (Jesus) rather than God and God alone. That "barrier" is removed in Messianic Judaism and let's face it...the other Judaisms consider Messianic Judaism to be a form of Christianity. Certainly having "grafted in" Gentiles attend a Messianic Jewish congregation can't help things and an extremely high intermarriage rate must make things worse.

Can Messianic Judaism ever resolve "the Gentile question", particularly in relation to mixed couples, Gentile Messianic Jewish synagogue attendance, and Messianic Gentiles converting to Messianic Judaism?

Gene Shlomovich said...

"they would say first reason, Jewish..."

No doubt, for a committed Jew (and I am including converts - like Ruth, for example), that should be the first requirement before getting seriously involved with someone on a romantic level. To give you another example, it would be the same as for a man having the first requirement that his future partner be a "woman", and only THEN he's to look at other "qualities" - very few folks, until recently that is, argued such "discrimination" be not allowed to trump "love".

No doubt it's a tough pill to swallow for some - Jews were always disdained for their exclusivity in marriage partners.

Zion/Jeruz said...

No doubt, for a committed Jew (and I am including converts - like Ruth, for example), that should be the first requirement before getting seriously involved with someone on a romantic level. To give you another example, it would be the same as for a man having the first requirement that his future partner be a "woman", and only THEN he's to look at other "qualities" - very few folks, until recently that is, argued such "discrimination" be not allowed to trump "love".

No doubt it's a tough pill to swallow for some - Jews were always disdained for their exclusivity in marriage partners.


Trust, me it is not only sects of Judaism that have exclusivity in marriage partners, whites would not marry blacks for the longest time, many cultures like India do not want anyone marrying outside of their culture and religion, even in America, some rich families want there children marrying only into rich families... What is ultimately sad about this, is that it says love is really not the greatest.. But everyone is free to do what they want... Just like people who marry for tax cuts, people are married for all kinds of shallow reasons, just like what you mentioned.

Gene Shlomovich said...

"Can Messianic Judaism ever resolve "the Gentile question", particularly in relation to mixed couples, Gentile Messianic Jewish synagogue attendance, and Messianic Gentiles converting to Messianic Judaism?"

Personally, I doubt it. I am beginning to think that the TRUE revolution and movement towards Yeshua will occur from within Israel itself and in the Land of Israel, and not out of American Charismatic Evangelical Christianity and MJM that it birthed, not in the multicultural melting pot of U.S. and the resulting confusion.

Gene Shlomovich said...

"'people are married for all kinds of shallow reasons, just like what you mentioned."

Jeruz, I don't get why you have to be all up in arms. Relax! You have your opinion and I have mine. Jews choosing to marry only other Jews (or converts to Judaism) is not "shallow" - it's simply a sane thing for a Jew to do. It preserves Jewish people. It prevents identity confusion. It promotes Jewish cohesiveness as a nation and done so for thousands of years. Progeny of Jews who married outside of their people and faith get lost in vast the sea of peoples within a few generations. It's a fact.

Frankly, I don't expect most non-Jews to care about Jewish intermarriage with Gentiles, just as most Jews don't care if say Italians intermarry with the French!

Zion/Jeruz said...

Jeruz, I don't get why you have to be all up in arms. Relax! You have your opinion and I have mine. Jews choosing to marry only other Jews (or converts to Judaism) is not "shallow" - it's simply a sane thing for a Jew to do. It preserves Jewish people. It prevents identity confusion. It promotes Jewish cohesiveness as a nation and done so for thousands of years. Progeny of Jews who married outside of their people and faith get lost in vast the sea of peoples within a few generations. It's a fact.

Frankly, I don't expect most non-Jews to care about Jewish intermarriage with Gentiles, just as most Jews don't care if say Italians intermarry with the French!


Gene, I agree we all have our own opinions, my main point is not to bash equally yoked marriage within culture, religion or faith, especially Jewish, I am not saying it is shallow to want to marry equally yoked, I think it is very smart, the point I was making is that I think it is sad and shallow when people make it more important than anything else.

Gene Shlomovich said...

"I think it is sad and shallow when people make it more important than anything else."

Certainly, to marry someone ONLY for their ethnic background/race/religion/culture/beauty/money/gender/football team preference is quite shallow. I don't think you'll see anyone advocating that ANYWHERE, and nobody mentioned that here in this discussion. I am advocating that Jews ONLY marry other Jews (or Jewish converts) strictly because of LOVE.

Beit Tefillah Chavurah said...

James and Gene wrote respectively:

"Can Messianic Judaism ever resolve "the Gentile question", particularly in relation to mixed couples, Gentile Messianic Jewish synagogue attendance, and Messianic Gentiles converting to Messianic Judaism?"

Personally, I doubt it. I am beginning to think that the TRUE revolution and movement towards Yeshua will occur from within Israel itself and in the Land of Israel, and not out of American Charismatic Evangelical Christianity and MJM that it birthed, not in the multicultural melting pot of U.S. and the resulting confusion."

To Gene first, I would tend to agree. I recently provided the worship music for a local Baptist Church event when an 85 year old pastor stood up and shocked the congregation by saying, "Revival is not coming to America. It is going to Israel and the Jewish people." I am seeing glimpses of this revival here among our Jewish brethren, but as you probably know well, the fear of betraying our families and history is strong.

James, I am not sure that the Messianic Jewish movement is equipped to resolve this issue; and I am honestly afraid of what would happen if it attempted to. From one congregation to the next we can hardly agree on Halakhah when it comes to basic observance for Jewish believers. I will be the first to tell you that our community consists mostly of saints from the nations; the non-believing Jews who have visited over the years, including a Holocaust survivor, could not tell the difference, they literally witnessed the One New Man; and in a couple of cases, they were brought to tears...of joy, btw.

I honestly have no answer to offer this discussion. I long for the day when these discussions will be long forgotten. Above all else, I trust that He has the answer to this and we should trust Him. James I will pray that your spirit will begin to feel at home, you are His and no man can change that.

Shalom and Hag Sameach!
Justin

Zion/Jeruz said...

I am advocating that Jews ONLY marry other Jews (or Jewish converts) strictly because of LOVE.

Would you say the same if a Jew loved a Gentile and wanted to marry? Because if you say no, then you just invalidated what you said above. Because then it is no longer love that determines the marriage, instead ethnicity and faith.

And I can't help to not believe you anyways, because you put so much emphasis on ethnicity(identity crisis), I tend to think that is your highest priority. It is like what James mentioned about one Law a little while back and I agree, there seems to be more emphasis on the lesser commandments than the greater.

Anyways, I don't want to derail this thread any longer if I am, thanks again for the topic James... I will stop here.

Judah Gabriel Himango said...

Although not applicable to James' marriage, I wonder what the apostles would think of Messiah-loving Jews marrying Messiah-loving gentiles.

Would they be strict and say, "The Torah says gentiles and Jews must not intermarry."

Or would they be lenient and say, "Gentiles in Messiah are not the pagans of old, the commandment does not apply."

James said...

Gene, you bring up a good point about Israel. In one sense, I don't believe all of our questions and discussion points will be resolved this side of the return of Messiah to Israel, so I suppose we could all just sit tight and wait for that to happen. On the other hand, there is so much in Judaism that says human beings are junior partners with God in making the world a better place, healing hurts, building bridges, and growing a stronger body of Messiah.

Maybe we won't be able to resolve "the Gentile question" within the Jewish body of the Messiah, but we wouldn't be very good partners with God if we didn't try.

Judah, do I sense your next blog post on the way?

Gene Shlomovich said...

"I wonder what the apostles would think of Messiah-loving Jews marrying Messiah-loving gentiles."

I would say that being faithful to both Torah and Jewish traditions, as well as careful to be good witnesses to their Jewish people, the apostles would not have dared to approve of intermarriage and they certainly would not promote it as a legitimate choice for Jewish believers. Apostles respected Jewish norms and knew the historic consequences of intermarriage for the Jewish people.

But, we'll never know how they really felt - since except for Timothy (who was circumcised because of his Jewish mother and therefore considered a Jew in every respect), there's no mention of any intermarriage in NT. Perhaps that was G-d's plan after all - to preserve the Jewish people for eternity.

Think about the following:

If a Jew marries another Jew, his/her children will be Jewish ethnically regardless of their Judaism observance. In fact, most of the current Jewish believers came from non-observance purely ethnic Jewish backgrounds whose identity was preserved simply because they had Jewish parents.

However, if a Jewish believer marries a Gentile believer, but their children and grandchildren choose not be believers - there will be nothing that remains of their identity - they will be neither Jewish nor Christian, and most likely will simply adopt the prevailing Gentile culture around them. They will be lost to Jewish people. Intermarriage for Jews is a destroyer of the nation.

One Jew marrying out - OK. But what if all Jews decided to make that choice, "for love"?

James said...

This question just dawned on me. I wonder how many "known-names" in the Messianic Jewish community are either in mixed marriages or are products of mixed marriages? I imagine there must be some who may be keeping quiet on this matter, even after having read this blog post.

If any are willing, it might be helpful if you'd share your stories or the stories of your parents, if they were a Jewish/Gentile couple. Imagine if some of the Jewish teachers or other luminaries in MJ have a non-Jewish spouse. Imagine some of the more noteworthy Gentile authors in MJ being married to a Jewish spouse. Are you out there?

Gene Shlomovich said...

"This question just dawned on me. I wonder how many "known-names" in the Messianic Jewish community are either in mixed marriages or are products of mixed marriages?"

An overwhelming majority of current MJ leadership and scholars is intermarried (mostly middle-aged Jewish men married to Gentile women).

James said...

Wow! Thanks for the quick response, Gene. It would be very illuminating if some of them would be willing to blog about their experiences, especially in relation to the issues inherent in Gentile/Jewish intermarriage and assimilation. How do they maintain their Jewish distinctiveness when the "usual" outcome of intermarriage is Jewish assimilation into the Gentile melting pot?

Gene Shlomovich said...

"How do they maintain their Jewish distinctiveness when the "usual" outcome of intermarriage is Jewish assimilation into the Gentile melting pot?"

Since you are unlikely to get their response, perhaps I can offer you some clues.

1. Intermarried MJ leaders, both those who believe in conversion and those who do not, usually refer to their Gentile spouses as "grafted into Israel like Ruth" (in other words "converts"), whether or not they actually went through any official conversion process (most did not).

2. In majority of cases Gentile spouses have attempted to minimize their Gentile identity in favor of the Messianic Jewish one. Conversions are practices on only a limited bases, so most retained their non-Jewish identity.

3. Children of these couples are a mixed bag (pardon the pun). Intermarriage weakes identity, and there's very little in a way of solid Jewish education to begin with. As the result many are simply Evangelical Christians who do not identify with Jewishness in any tangible way. Many of them do not participate in the mainstream Jewish community because they simply can't relate to it ethnically and culturally, or feel rejected by it (because they are not Jewish halachically or because they were raised essentially a Gentile Christian environment with a few Jewish trappings).

James said...

Thanks for the response, Gene.

I suspect you're right in that few if any people who are part of an intermarriage within Messianic Judaism will respond, which is a shame because it creates a sort of "underground" within the movement. If we can't be open and transparent with each other about important issues, how can we be a good witness and a light to the rest of humanity?

Unknown said...

James,

They are out here and they are legion. The concern over who is Jewish and who is not is a recent development in American MJ...and it is ripping apart the Body. 1 Cor 7 SPECIFICALLY addresses the issue of conversion for believers - Paul teaches that G-d placed us where we are and made u who we are...and that we should no seek to change that, but be accepted within the Body of believers at large. Jews should not seek to become Gentiles and vice versa. and yet, we are beginning to see the teaching and practice of conversion Gentiles to Messianic Judaism. We've seen the opposite for centuries in the "church" and it was just as wrong.

L-rd, please come quickly - and straighten out this mess your children are creating!

Gene Shlomovich said...

"we are beginning to see the teaching and practice of conversion Gentiles to Messianic Judaism. We've seen the opposite for centuries in the "church" and it was just as wrong."

Not factually correct. Jews were FORCED to convert to "church" (often at pain of death if they did not or being ostracized by church community for practicing Judaism while believing in Yeshua), while Gentiles in MM are a majority, they love all things Jewish and many taking on their version of Jewish identity voluntary (basically already "self-converting", without any Jewish involvement official conversion would entail). Huge difference.

Unknown said...

Gene,

I agree that forced conversion under threat of death is different - EXTREMELY different. I was speaking more generally of the modern Christian teaching that a Jewish person who accepts Y'shua/Jesus stops being a Jew and "becomes" a Christian - as though the two are mutually exclusive. This pressure to assimilate into the larger Christian culture and stop any an all Jewish practices was more what I was referring to. Now, we have Messianic leaders telling Gentiles that they need to convert to messianic Judaism or "go back to your churches".

People leave churches for a number of reasons. They most often come to us because the Ruach is moving in their hearts to reveal G-d's truth about what the church is really doing when they celebrate Christmas/Easter, etc., etc. G-d is also moving to reveal to them that the "god" they had been worshipping is really a Jewish man who came to reveal a Jewish G-d to the world. Zech. 8:23 and Isaiah 56 are happening before our eyes. To tell the people coming to us to learn that they need to convert or leave is criminal and it is sin.

Gene Shlomovich said...

Am.... while many folks have indeed joined Messianic Movement for very wrong reasons and have greatly blurred its vision and purpose of being a spiritual home for Jewish followers of Yeshua who are ostracized by the rest of the Jewish community for their beliefs (hijacked really, turning it into another Charismatic Evangelical outfit that teaches Hebraic roots to Gentile majority), I have not heard anyone advocate that Gentiles "need to convert or leave". Gentiles have always been a presence in synagogues. Those who do advocate conversions within MJ (I find it hard to support such conversions, simply because MJ is decades from being ready for such a thing, IMHO), do so to accommodate those who are truly committed to the Jewish people and would like to take it a step further.

Instead, MJ's refocusing on serving the needs of the Jewish people will naturally do the work of sifting those who do not belong and are best served and can serve elsewhere, and those non-Jews who are truly and selflessly committed to Jewish people [specifically], rather than those who are looking for alternatives to Christmas and Easter or enjoy minor key worship music.

James said...

Here's where I disagree with you, Gene. You seem to believe that a Gentile Christian would have no valid reason to want to worship in a primarily Jewish/Hebraic setting (except perhaps with bad motives), but I believe some non-Jews feel 'called' to worship in a Messianic synagogue. You previously mentioned the God-fearers in the time of Paul and Peter. Those Gentiles left pagan idol worship because they came to faith in the One true God of Israel and worshiped, no doubt in the back of the synagogue, but they worshiped.

I'm not saying that Christians in the Church today are idol worshipers, but some of us feel called to discover a worship model that is more in keeping with the Jewishness of the Messiah. In my case, I was introduced to MJ when my Jewish wife began to worship within that context. After she left, I decided to stay rather than return to a church setting where I no longer felt I belonged (and still don't).

The whole reason I created this personal blog was to explore the different issues relative to Gentiles and Jews co-existing in the Messianic realm. In my five-month experience of writing this blog and participating in the responses, I've noticed that we seem to have a long way to go. As you said, maybe we can't summon the change in the U.S. Maybe it has to happen in Israel and move outward, much like this:

Many nations will come and say,
“Come, let us go up to the mountain of the LORD,
to the temple of the God of Jacob.
He will teach us his ways,
so that we may walk in his paths.”
The law will go out from Zion,
the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.


-Micah 4:2

Unknown said...

Gene,

"Convert or leave"

Few are that blunt up front, but that is the bottom line they are reaching and striving towards. Gentiles with many years in the movement have been turned away at some MJ synagogues with "you don't belong here - you are not welcome". Derek posted in the past few weeks about Gentiles and suggested that they go back to their churches. So, don't tell me it's not being said or done.

If a Gentile does choose to stay in such a place, they are given a "back-row seat" so to speak - forbidden from participating in any way. This is wrong - it is just as wrong as the same treatment because of your skin color.

Some MJ synagogues and organizations are creating a two tiered system whereby Jews have full membership and participation and Gentiles are simply (possibly) tolerated outsiders. Is this really what G-d wants for His people? Does it demonstrate the love and unity Y'shua prayed for? Or is it just payback for the past treatment Jews received at the hands of "the Church"?

I don't understand why it is being done...but I know it is WRONG!

James said...

I just want to quickly mention before Shabbat begins that there's a difference between how some congregations (Traditional Jewish, Messianic Jewish, or Christian) welcome people (or fail to do so) and how those people are esteemed by God. When I read the Bible, I don't feel rejected or devalued by God because I'm a Gentile. I also don't feel that way when I encounter many Jewish people (such as Gene), but there are still issues that we haven't cleared up between the redeemed community of the Messiah. From my point of view, how the Jewish and Gentile sheep are supposed to treat each other in the Messiah's pen hasn't been successfully resolved. As I'm sure you can tell, I identify with the black sheep as a "johnny-come-lately".

Shabbat Shalom.

Anonymous said...

good post, thank you! thank you for sharing so openly all you've lived through.

i'm in a similar situation - i'm jewish, married to a gentile. actually, things are quite similar to what you've experienced growing up, and i lived through things like you wife did, except that after Chabad i returned to Yeshua. my family are atheists, and i grew up in a completely atheist, and completely german household, no religious or other identity whatsoever - and now, my gentile husband has become atheist.

there are many days i wish i was married to a Jew! for my children's sake, and for our sake. yes, my husband has become quite supportive and will sometimes go out of his way to make sure i get the right food and shows some understanding but so often i wish i could be more observant etc, but this would create problems i probably would not have if i wasn't intermarried. but in no way i am considering divorce; i love my husband, and the children love their father. but if it were to do again, i would not intermarry. it's hard passing a jewish identity on to my children, and i'm already somewhat heartbroken because my daughter clearly said that it was better to be christian than to be jewish. my son on the other hand, wants payos.

~Chaya

James said...

Clearly Chaya, it would be easier for couples and families if they were completely united in their cultural, ethnic, and religious identities and intermarriage introduces risks. On the other hand, as both your life and mine has illustrated, you can never know what the future brings. When my wife and I were first married, except for our a bit of genetics, our lifestyles and cultural identities were very similar and neither of us had a faith. We could not have foreseen what was coming next. No one can second guess God.

Unless we believe that God has abandoned us, there is hope for the future. The God of Heaven will watch over our souls and His providence will be with our families.

Anonymous said...

"Unless we believe that God has abandoned us, there is hope for the future. The God of Heaven will watch over our souls and His providence will be with our families."

i completely agree with you, and i don't want to think of my husband as a "mistake" - i love him. the main reason why i would prefer to not intermarry is exactly that, as you said it: "it would be easier for couples and families if they were completely united in their cultural, ethnic, and religious identities". but, struggling to keep my identity, rediscover it, and transmit it has led me to deepen it, and i am most certainly grateful that my husband lets me do as i see fit, and whilst thinking that all religions are wrong, he has come to have a genuine respect and interest for judaism. i have to add that he was christian (calvinist, with friends and contacts amongst evangelicals such as YWAM) but he has, over the course of the last years, lost his faith.

~Chaya