So, aside from tefillin, I don’t remember reading about any of this as being forbidden to non-Jews.
Gene Shlomovich from his comments on
Book Review: Tefillin, A Study of the Commandment of Tefillin
The link I just posted above leads not only to Gene's comments, but to a book review I just wrote about a new First Fruits of Zion (FFOZ) booklet about the history and commandments involving the use of Tefillin in Jewish (and possibly Gentile) prayer (and please feel free to read the review and comment about it on my other blog).
Gene's comments started me wondering about a subject that sometimes occurs to me when we have these conversations. Messianic Judaism, and particularly that expression that takes to heart the concept of Bilateral Ecclesiology (BE), tends to believe that the specific roles and responses of Jewish and Gentile disciples of the Messiah are different based on having a different status before God. From that perspective, authoritative rulings are not only rendered in the written Torah, but also in the Oral tradition and judgments of the learned Jewish sages. Halachah, as Gene mentions, is considered applicable to define both Jewish and Gentile responsibilities (or lack thereof) relative to what we think of as traditional Jewish religious practice.
One of the criticisms that Messianic Judaism has of the One Law and Two-House movements, is that these groups only consider the written Bible (Torah, Prophets, Writings, and Apostolic Scriptures) as authoritative and relegate the Oral law and rulings of the sages to the status of "opinions", which are then easily dismissed. This is why, for example, that a One Law practitioner can say they are keeping a type of kosher by only eating beef, chicken, and vegetables purchased at their local supermarket, while a Messianic Jew whose practice is more "rabbinically" centered, would require that their kosher meat be certified as such under rabbinic supervision, prepare their food in a kosher kitchen, not mix meat and dairy products, and so forth. Hamburger from Safeway or Albertsons just wouldn't do and a cheeseburger is out of the question.
But they don't believe that Yeshua is the Messiah either, and thus don't consider any of his teachings authoritative. Neither did any of the Jewish sages including Rambam, whose statements quoted in my book review could be interpreted as supporting Gentiles obeying more than the Seven Noahide Laws.
Halachah, in part, must make the assumption that all non-Jews are obligated only to the Noahide Laws, and a Gentile's responsibilities to God are contained within those limitations (and keep in mind that the seven laws can be further subdivided into multiple, specific behaviors).
Are non-Jewish people who have come to faith in the Jewish Messiah and who have become the Messiah's disciples (you can't get around Matthew 28:19-20) considered absolutely equivalent to Noahides? Is the Jerusalem letter (Acts 15) considered to be a specific and limiting container for Gentile Messianic disciples in precisely the same way as the Noahide Laws recorded in Genesis 9?
I've previously blogged that I don't believe the Acts 15 letter describes an absolute limit for Gentile Messianics, since Yeshua's teachings that we Gentiles are required to obey extend beyond the borders of the letter and into many principles directly drawn from the Torah mitzvot (visiting the sick, feeding the hungry, remaining faithful to one's spouse, not murdering, and so forth).
I don't have an answer to this next question, but can we totally accept all of the halachah regarding Gentile religious practice, when every single ruling was written specifically for Gentiles who were either Noahides or pagans?
Wait! What did I say?
Gentiles have two classes...or three?
Consider this. We non-Jews in the movement are disciples of the Jewish Messiah, AKA "Christians". A concept and status not taken into account (for the most part) in halachah (and when it is taken into account, the "account" is usually not favorable, given the historic relationship between Christians and Jews). However, does any of the rabbinic judgments consider the difference between a "righteous Gentile" and a pagan (a Gentile who does not comply with the Noahide requirements)? They would have to if the status of "Noahide" were to have any meaning. But if Christianity and Messianic Judaism (in all its forms and variations) must accept the fact, based on the Matthew 28, that Gentiles are also able to assume the status as "disciples of the Jewish Messiah" and heirs according to the promise (Galatians 3:29), then there must be a difference between Gentile Messianics and Gentile Noahides. Otherwise, why not just have all Gentiles either convert to Judaism or become Noahides and leave it at that? Heck, Yeshua could have saved himself a lot of trouble if he didn't have to die for the sins of the world (John 3:16).
Like I said before, I don't have the answer to these questions, but these are questions we don't ask very often, if at all. I believe that, in some manner or fashion, we have to consider the possibility that halachah for Gentile Messianic believers may need to be "adjusted" to accommodate a status for us that the sages, by definition, would never have considered.
The road is long and often, we travel in the dark, ignoring the light of the world. Look for the lamp who lights your path or you may become lost in the dark forever.
"A Jew never gives up. We're here to bring Mashiach, we will settle for nothing less." -Harav Yitzchak Ginsburgh
26 comments:
"we have to consider the possibility that halachah for Gentile Messianic believers may need to be "adjusted" to accommodate a status for us that the sages, by definition, would never have considered."
Man, am I giving you tons of material to blog about, or what:)?
James, don't we already have apostles weighing in on that in Acts 15 and elsewhere? Would not NT have been a perfect place to address these concerns? The "G-d fearer" based type of halacha in NT comes very close the more modern Jewish Noahide model. Perhaps the apostles should have anticipated the rise of One-Law / Hebrew Roots movements in the 1990's and their preoccupation with application of Jewish traditions to the Gentiles!
I know I'm commenting on an irrelevant topic, but since it was mentioned in so little words of this blog, I thought I'd ask: how about a cheeseburger using rice cheese?
http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-rice-cheese.htm
marko, yum - you got my hopes up, but the problem is that according to description on that link you provided rise "cheese" still contains A milk byproduct (Casein), which I would suspect make it impossible to use on a kosher burger, quite unfortunately.
I'm not picking on you Gene...really.
The problem is, traditional Jewish rulings and traditions are being used within the Messianic movement to apply to all non-Jews within the moment. The sages, who I respect, all understood a non-Jew to be either a Noahide or a pagan. Does our status as disciples of Messiah do nothing to modify any of those rulings? It's as if Yeshua never was born, lived, died, resurrected, or ascended at all, at least as far as non-Jews are concerned (I assume all of his actions would still be relevant to Jews). It's as if it doesn't matter if Gentiles come to faith in the Jewish Messiah.
If the halachah being applied was issued by authorities who would never have acknowledged Gentiles as disciples and "spirit-filled" (Matthew 28 and Acts 10 respectively), can we still apply 100% of those rulings to Gentile disciples as if we were either Noahides or pagans?
"can we still apply 100% of those rulings to Gentile disciples as if we were either Noahides or pagans?"
Perhaps not, not until Messiah comes back and changes the actual halacha in the mainstream Jewish community if he finds things in it that need changing:) I don't think that MJs should do things like changing halacha unilaterally.
"Perhaps not,"
I meant to say "perhaps we should", as in yes, we should apply - at least most of halacha as is.
Then are we saying that it's irrelevant if a non-Jew comes to faith in Yeshua as the Messiah? The halachah is identical regardless if a Gentile is a believer or a Noahide (and the latter doesn't require a faith in Yeshua).
"The halachah is identical regardless if a Gentile is a believer or a Noahide (and the latter doesn't require a faith in Yeshua)."
If it's not identical, we certainly have no way of knowing. The few instances in NT seem to indicate a general agreement and continuity with existing Jewish practices. Things like Paul saying that he's done nothing against Torah and traditions seem to point this way as well.
Some may object and say that halacha used to say that Jews are not allowed to associate with Gentiles or come into their houses. I think it was more of a local attitude of the times toward pagan Gentiles (remember, Israel was under Roman occupation and most Gentiles were idolaters) and not a hard timeless halachic ruling. How do we know that? Well, it certainly doesn't exist in any modern expressions of Judaism, does it?
I'm not sure where to go from here besides perhaps nowhere. Except for the references I've already cited here and on the "tefillin" blog, I can't point to anything specifically (but then again, I'm hardly an expert) in the NT rulings that modifies Oral tradition or the subsequent rulings of the sages.
Between you and Derek's latest blog post, once a Gentile believer in the Jewish Messiah enters the "Messianic" world, he or she needs to continually be a little "nervous" about all of the limitations of halachah in which we're immersed. It's a little like trying to navigate a maze when all of the walls (and trap doors) are invisible.
Of course, our alternative is to affiliate with a church and then the problem vanishes. For those of us who are "Not Jewish Yet Drawn to Torah", it might be better if we were not so drawn (and I'm sorry...I'm "drawn" and I don't know why). Ironically, it actually complicates my marriage, since I'd have to make sure I didn't "accidentally" observe the Shabbat "Jewishly" just because I live in the same home with a Jew.
It also means that my quote of Toby Janicki on my congregation's blog which states, As a Gentile myself, I wrap tefillin on a daily basis and find much spiritual benefit in carrying out this biblical practice, not as a commandment incumbent upon me, but as a private choice I have made to exercise a spiritual discipline in my daily prayer life. Not that it makes me more spiritual than others, but I personally find great blessing in the ritual and all the symbolism it offers, is at least presumptive if not downright foolish.
True?
"True?"
I don't know nor am I an authority on this stuff. One's thing's for sure - you seem to want to extract an admission of halachic change (at least from MJ) in regards to Gentile observances of Jewish laws and traditions. But that's not what Yeshua came here to do for Gentiles, is it? He came to affect a spiritual change and status. Those who chose to stay as G-d Fearers within Jewish communities knew that their halachic status carried certain practical limitations in their participation within a Jewish community. Some converted to participate as Jews.
However, think about this: Jews are not going around checking people homes to see who's doing what, right? It's an honor based system.
Not an admission so much as a possibility. I understand (as best I can anyway given my educational limitations) your perspective that it's best to stick with established authority rather than make changes willy-nilly, but that also means that any blessing some of us might derive from performing additional mitzvot would still be considered "illegal, immoral, and probably fattening".
However, think about this: Jews are not going around checking people homes to see who's doing what, right? It's an honor based system.
True, but by inference, that would mean that any of us who would perform additional mitzvot beyond those allowed Noahides would be "dishonorable".
Gentile Messianic disciples are allowed, and perhaps required, based on the two greatest commandments from Matthew 22:37-40 (which are derived from Deuteronomy 6:5 and Leviticus 19:18) to have a love for God not suggested by the Noahide commandments. I've never gotten the impression that Noahides would ever have the ability to "approach the Throne of God", at least in the same manner as those of us who are supposed to be fellow heirs (Ephesians 3:6).
Wait, you can't use Scripture to determine things like this! You have to use Delek's "history" and Euge's deep insights into "yiddishkeit."
Seriously, well-thought out questions. Your use of Scripture is quite refreshing.
One thing to consider is the way words are used in convincing the those who otherwise would not be open to convincing. Too often the same words are used, but are carefully crafted to find agreement, when the real intent is to silence opposition.
Although BE has its curmudgeons who only harden opposition to their message; there are others that through redefined words find ways to appeal to "both sides." Meanwhile they gain support for the overall BE cause. You can probably think of an organization that does this.
Rick, you've lost your argument the moment you started mocking and spouting hateful disdain toward those who disagree with you theologically.
"Rick, you've lost your argument the moment you started mocking and spouting hateful disdain toward those who disagree with you theologically."
LOL! Look who's talking....Our resident flame thrower.....
Sometimes I wonder if these conversations are driven by a fundamental difference between how Jews and Gentiles view religion and religious issues. In Christianity, once you've accepted Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior, you are the same as any other Christian on virtually all levels of existence (at least in theory). Yes, some may be Pastors, and some may be teachers, and some may take out the garbage, but all Christians can pray the same way and functionally, there is no difference between one Christian and the next in terms of status or religious practice.
On the other hand, in Judaism, there are fundamental differences between Jews and Gentiles, even "righteous" Gentiles. That's not such a big deal since there is little religious "overlap", but in the Messianic world, it causes a huge problem. Jews and Gentiles, though we worship the same Messiah and give honor to the same God, are "not the same". That could be read as "not equal", but I'm trying hard to fall through that emotional and spiritual trap door. On a very basic level, Jews and Gentiles are unalike beings in relation to each other and relation to God. Further, we think in fundamentally different ways, at least for Jews who were raised religiously Jewish and for Gentiles who have a church background.
Christians view the Bible as the only authoritative documentation, while in Judaism, there are multiple authoritative documents and sources that modify the written Bible. While we (Christians) can intellectually understand this, it's harder for us to accept it on a "visceral" or "gut" level. I think it's this difference that leads to these little head-banging-against-brick-wall sessions (and my forehead is getting flatter all the time).
There are days I envy people who have a religion that introduces no ambiguity, disagreements, or disputes. I even sometimes envy secular humanists or atheists who are so sure that the world is exactly as "science" and "political correctness" tells them it is and who have absolutely no doubt who they are and what that means. There are no higher questions to ask and no answers to struggle with. Not only that, but everyone else (except a few "religious nuts") thinks and believes exactly the same things that you do.
I sometimes imagine putting on a suit and tie, going to a church, sitting silently during "the message" and only occasionally nodding in agreement when the Sunday school teacher gives his lesson.
Nah, it would never work. I'd open my mouth, actually start asking the questions no one wants me to ask (what a shock) and get kicked out on my "arse".
"Nah, it would never work. I'd open my mouth, actually start asking the questions no one wants me to ask (what a shock) and get kicked out on my "arse"."
James, I am curious - what questions do you think would get you kicked out of, for example, your typical "non-denominational" evangelical church?
James, I think you just received permission from a Messianic Rabbi (Derek), part of the MJRC council, in his current blog, to develop some of your own Gentile halachah because you are in "an an entirely different category." Perhaps it can be the bridge that binds us all and be called 'Messianic Jamesism' but no, if you are leaving the MM, perhaps it should just be 'Jamesism.'
(all in good fun)... ; )
Gene said: James, I am curious - what questions do you think would get you kicked out of, for example, your typical "non-denominational" evangelical church?
Oh, questions like, "Why do you think Jesus had to die so the Law could be nailed to the cross?" or "Why do you think the Jews are under a curse?" or "Why couldn't Paul have remained a Jew after his "road to Damascus" experience rather than converting to Christianity?"
See my point?
The kicker would be when someone wanted to pray for my wife to come to Christ because he's an "unsaved Jew" and I objected because my wife likes herself the way she is and doesn't want to depopulate the world of Jews by even one single individual.
Marko said: James, I think you just received permission from a Messianic Rabbi (Derek), part of the MJRC council, in his current blog, to develop some of your own Gentile halachah because you are in "an an entirely different category."
I think that was just Derek saying that I'm a square peg in a (religious) world of round holes. That, and he was a tad bit exasperated for having to explain to me what he originally meant (or for having to fix my broken "a" tag). ;-)
James, let me guess - you feel another post brewing, trying to spill over:) - "What would happen if I went back to church?"
Nope. I've already posted that blog including conclusions.
Oh yeah, you already did! Must come up with new topics for you:)
Thanks, Gene. I've almost run out a couple of times this week. ;-)
I attended a "non-denominational" church for a few months. At first, its cool because its like motivational speaking. They get everyone worked up, its lively, and the people are super friendly, and I believe genuine. However, after a while I needed a bit more meat on the plate. I made a few comments to the pastor on our tuesday night class, about more teaching from the Bible, many sermons were loosely based on one or two verses, poorly interpreted at that. Obviously, this got me nowhere. He seemed more interested in "pumping" every one up than in analysis of scripture, which is what I was expecting from a small study group.
Its almost better to be Methodist or Baptist or whatever, at least they take a stance on something. Theres something to be said for that.
IMO - The non D church wouldnt be for James at all. I got some bizzare stories... but no sense dragging anyone through the mud. Like I said, many good people there.
I think this is a problem in the Messianic arena, not all Churches are healthy, or have healthy doctrines, and they are scared to talk about it for fear of driving more non-Jews out of the church. This is happening anyways, with bad results. I know many atheists that used to be believers, but got fed up with the whole Church business and left altogether. I got fed up, but am searching (and always will like you guys too), and not giving up on faith.
Enough of my senseless babbling for now, I gotta get the kid ready for school.
I think this is a problem in the Messianic arena, not all Churches are healthy, or have healthy doctrines, and they are scared to talk about it for fear of driving more non-Jews out of the church. This is happening anyways, with bad results. I know many atheists that used to be believers, but got fed up with the whole Church business and left altogether. I got fed up, but am searching (and always will like you guys too), and not giving up on faith.
Thanks. Different people need different messages and sometimes the same person needs different messages at different times. There are those who would gravitate to such a church if their primary need was a weekly spiritual recharge. Nothing wrong with that in and of itself, but as you say, if that's all there is, once you've been recharged, where do you go from there?
The reverse can also be a problem. Some places are all "meat and potatoes", but to the degree that all they have is "the argument" and "the question" but they don't recognized when members are needing something else.
I currently belong to a small congregation so for the most part, the "message" comes just from me. I try to tailor my teachings a little differently each week, sometimes focusing on "the tough questions" and sometimes sending a message of hope.
A good congregation (church, synagogue, whatever) would recognize the continuum of people's needs and provide for them. Not sure the blogosphere is the proper setting to meet most of those needs.
"I think this is a problem in the Messianic arena, not all Churches are healthy, or have healthy doctrines, and they are scared to talk about it for fear of driving more non-Jews out of the church. This is happening anyways, with bad results."
Mike... I don't think that Messianics fare any better - there's plenty of seriously unhealthy and divisive doctrines to go around, many weirder than anything your NonD church can come up with. I even wonder who's worse. Most of these folks were much better off in churches, IMHO. I mean, having a new non-antinomian perspective on Torah is important, but when you start teaching, as most non-Jewish messianic places do, that Gentiles must submit to Mosaic Law - is this really a better alternative?
Or if you have Gentiles seriously resenting Jews for not respecting One-Law/Two-House doctrines and Jews "hogging" Torah to themselves, is it a better perspective than some of the unhealthy views of Israel found in churches? I don't think so.
I've encountered various Messianic congregations over the years and some of them have very unusual ideas. I was at a meeting of ten or more Messianic groups in the Puget Sound area some years ago and overheard quite a few "interesting" conversations. One gentleman was saying that during the "lost years of Jesus", he and his "Uncle" Nicodemus traveled together to India. I have no idea where that came from.
Part of the problem I've found is that there isn't a lot of "regulation" in the Messianic world. Anyone with a theological "axe to grind" can put on a kippah and tallit, call himself a "Messianic Rabbi" and set up shop. Since lots of people like an "X-Files" type theology, these groups can get pretty popular.
I'm not trying to be mean, but we really have a responsibility to try and teach "the basics" and stay away from the "fringe" elements that orbit around MJ. Churches can have issues, but we're not immune.
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